SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Terrible Tuesome Tuesday, where two sisters tell you a haunted story and every tale comes with a side of family drama. I'm Ashley, I'm Simone, and today's episode is the Veliska Axe Murders.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Let's get into it. I am super intrigued about the Veliska Axe murders and then also the hauntings that followed.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

Okay, but don't get too excited because this isn't a true crime podcast, so I didn't go super in depth to the true crime aspect. Right. We do get into it a little. I got a lot of the information on the murders from the Morbid podcast because they do an amazing segment on the true crime aspect. They are great. Their episodes are very well written and researched. I literally knew nothing about this case because I just like never heard of it. I was looking up haunted stuff and you've never heard of it? No. There are a lot of great books and blogs about this topic because the true crime aspect is fascinating. Yeah. Um, so if you want to know more about that, you should get better sources than I. Um, I believe it's me, but whatever. I did read the book that goes over the hauntings in the house since the murders. It's called The Nightmare and Velisca Investigating the Haunted Axe Murder House by Richard Estep. So you'll hear me reference that a lot as because he goes over like basically every big investigation of the house that has been done and then does his own. Um so that information will be linked in the show notes. You have any you have anything to say?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

No, I don't know a whole lot about it. I definitely don't know a whole lot about the hauntings of the house, but um, it is just super intriguing to me that these people were killed and they're and there there was no justice for it ever.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

There's a really great book. Well, I assume. I didn't read it. Uh there's a what I hear is a really great book about a um fourth possibility of uh of the murderer and why it was never solved that we'll talk about. So let's go. Okay, go ahead. Vallisca, Iowa is made up of mainly farmland between two rivers. Always. Just always.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Again with the water.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

According to author Tom Savage, who wrote a book called A Dictionary of Iowa Place Names. Okay. Sounds boring as fuck, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah. Uh Velisca was originally named because the person who named it thought Valliska meant pretty place or lovely view, but historians now think it was a misinterpreted indigenous person word for Walliska, which means evil place. Oh my god, that's fitting. The home itself where the crime took place is only 600 square feet. Oh, that's tiny. That's tiny. I once lived in 900 square feet with my I think we were married. Yeah, my husband. Um, and it felt like we were on top of each other all the time, and there's only two of us. There were six of them in this 600 square foot house. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

100 square feet per person.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Yeah, it's crazy. So it's 1912. The Titanic has just tragically sunk. There was a presidential election going on, of which Woodrow Wilson would win, and the country was in turmoil because the women's suffrage movement was in full swing, and we all know how much America hates women having rights. Yes. So everyone was pretty pissed. In Velisca, Iowa, however, there was something else happening. Eight people had been murdered in their sleep, and no one knew what the fuck to do. The Moors were an affluent family who were well-liked and active members of a popular Presbyterian church in town. Sarah and Josiah Moore had four children. Herman was eleven, Mary was ten, Arthur was seven, and Paul was five. Josiah was a prominent businessman who had just bought a franchise as part of the John Deere company. Oh wow. Yeah, we'll get into that more. It's pretty petty, and I am I'm for it. On the night of June 9th, the family had been at a church event, and two girls from the Stillinger family were staying the night at the Moore house. Ina was eight and Lena was eleven. This was a last-minute decision that was actually made by their older sister to let them stay the night at the house that night. It's just super sad. That makes it even more tragic. Yeah, and it's like all those stories you hear about the Titanic where like people were supposed to go, but at the last minute couldn't, or vice versa. It's just like divine intervention. We're all just feathers floating in the universe's wind. The morning after a neighbor nearby, Mary, saw that by seven o'clock in the morning the Moors were not awake. The curtains were closed, no lights were on, no sound was coming from the property. And this was weird because it was a farming community, so everyone was up with the roosters taking care of animals and doing chores. Mary went next door and knocked and found all the doors locked, which was also weird because no one in Velisca locked their doors. It was 1912 and Dateline didn't exist yet. So God, no one ever really thought about getting murdered in their sleep. Mary finally called Josiah's brother Ross, who had a key to the Moore's house. Ross comes over, tries to go around the outside of the house looking for signs of life, doesn't find anything. He unlocks the door and goes into the house where he walked into the first room off of the parlor where the two Stillinger sleep sisters were sleeping, Ina and Lena, and he saw two figures under white sheets with massive bloodstains. He immediately runs outside, calls the cops. The cops arrive. The marshal goes into the same room that Ross had gone into and opened the curtains to let the light in. He saw blood on the walls and floor and saw the axe covered in blood against a wall. The marshal went up to the master bedroom and again blood covering every inch of the room. Sarah and Josiah Moore could not even be identified because of the injuries to their heads. He lastly went into the children's room and saw the same fate had inflicted had been inflicted on all four of the Moore children. After further investigation, doctors and police deducted that Sarah and Josiah were killed first. And so that obviously meant to them that the killer knew them because they knew where the master bedroom was and they knew that they were the only adults in the house. Right. So if you're gonna like murder a bunch of children, like a demon, you should kill the adults first. Obviously. So everyone was hit with the blunt end. Oh my god. Josiah was hit so hard that marks from the axe were found in the ceiling from the killer swinging the axe. And some sources say that Josiah's eyes were just not there. Oh my god. He had been hit so hard that his eyes were decimated. Uh he was hit at least 30 times, while all the other victims were hit at least 20 times. Brown axe marks were also found in the Moore's children's Moore children's bedroom. And subsequent owners of the house would claim that splinters could be found in the walls and the ceilings.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Ina and Lena, who were in the downstairs room, were killed last. Ina's head was covered with a coat that looked like it belonged to a young boy. Lena was the very last to be killed and found halfway off the bed with her arm under her pillow. However, where the blood had been pulled didn't match this position. Like her arm looked to be placed on top of the pool of blood. Um so doctors think that she was hit, tried to get out of bed, and was awake when she was murdered.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah. How did any of the children sleep through this happening right next to them?

SPEAKER_01 8:13

That's a really big question that's like never really answered. Okay. Um well, I guess we'll get into one theory, but it's never really known how this person could have done this and not woken anybody up. Trigger warning for sexual assault. Unfortunately, Lena's fate seemed to get worse when they found her underwear under the bed, her nightgown pulled up over her head, and her legs spread with a bloody handprint on her thighs. Oh my god, poor baby. There was no physical evidence that she was raped. However, investigators do think she was sexually assaulted in some way. After the murders occurred, the killer went around the house and put cloth over all the mirrors and all the mirroring glass, so basically anything you could like see your reflection in.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

I wonder if, like, psychologically that means that he was like ashamed of himself and didn't want to see his own reflection. That's what they think, because why else would you do that? Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Okay, sorry. You weren't. No, that's what I Yeah. I mean, that's the only thing that really makes sense. They also found a slab of bacon next to the axe in the extra room where the stylinger sisters were, and they believed the killer had masturbated with it. With the bacon. Yes. Which is some psychotic shit.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Why do they think that he masturbated with it?

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Uh just because of where it was. Really say why? It is weird that it was uneaten in the room with the girl that they think he's like physically assaulted. Was it cooked? No, it was raw. I I it might hurt to masturbate with cooked patriarchs. Uh he then ate some beans and bread and left around 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

And what time do they think that the murders happened?

SPEAKER_01 9:55

In the middle of the night. I don't really I'm I like sometime in the middle of the night. Some creepy side facts. There were footprints found in the kids' closet upstairs and two smoked cigarettes in the attic.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Oh my god. So he just went all over the house.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

And also, they found an imprint in the hay of the Moor's barn. So investigators assumed that the person who killed them had been living in their barn and watching them for a while. Oh my god. Because it was 1912 and no one had anything interesting to do or any sense of respect for murder victims, people in the town were parading in and out of the house to see the moors and the cylinders. One person even taking a part of Josiah's skull. Jesus Christ. Like, if you want somewhere to be haunted, you should do that. Because that's crazy. Like desecration station. Yes. I you why would you why would you do that? Why would you want that? Why would you want it? Probably because a bunch of morbid townspeople corrupted the crime scene. No one was ever convicted of the crimes. Yeah, that makes sense now. One main suspect was Frank F. Jones, who was Josiah's old boss at a farm equipment business. There was bad blood between them because Josiah had gotten the John Deere account, and when he left Frank's business, he took the account with him. And even set up his new business right across the street. Okay. Petty. Mm-hmm. He's a petty bitch. Detectives thought that Frank, who was also a state senator, had hired a hitman to kill Josiah and his family, but there was never enough evidence to even arrest him. There was another factor that makes Frank a pretty good suspect, and that was Josiah had been jeeping on Sarah and was known to have been having an affair with Frank's daughter-in-law, Donna.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Oh my god, Josiah.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

You suck. If Frank didn't commit this crime, it's pretty unfortunate because he was voted out of office after this and never really came back from it. And just to note, Frank created regulations that insurance companies still use to this day, and also created the Iowa Department of Transportation. Oh, okay. That's a big fucking deal. That is. So if he's innocent, it's unfortunate he isn't really remembered for any of these things. No. Personally, I find it less probable that Frank Jones was behind any of this. It doesn't it doesn't make sense that he would kill the other seven victims, especially children, because Josiah was harsh in his vibe.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Yeah, especially children that didn't belong to Josiah.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Right. I'd give this theory more validity if it was only Josiah who was killed. Another main suspect in the killings was Reverend George Kelly. Kelly was a traveling minister and had been in town the night of the murders. He was a creepy fuck who asked young girls to pose nude for him. What the fuck? Yeah. And just happened to be in attendance at the same church as the Moors the night of the murders. Okay. Which by the way was Children's Day. That's Children's Day. That's what the event was called. Okay. So George Kelly showed up on Children's Day. Is a fucking pedophile, yeah. Okay, gross. He also left town right after the bodies were discovered that morning. Um, he had no interest in sticking around like the neighbors. No. Okay. Kelly actually made a confession to the police. However, he was not mentally stable, having suffered from a mental breakdown, and recanted his confession. He did go to trial twice, and after the first mistrial, uh, he was found not guilty at his second trial. Okay. The third theory is the transient theory. This is the one I've heard. There was a man named Andrew Sawyer who happened to show up to Villisca looking for work around the same time as the murders. He was given work at the Burlington Railroad, but the other men who worked there found him to be odd. He slept with an axe next to him. Okay. Barely spoke to anyone, but he was obsessed with the Moore's murders. However, it could be proven he was in a different town on the night of the murders because he was arrested in a neighboring county for vagrancy or watching town. Yeah, for real. No better alibi than you're already in jail. Right. This is the most interesting and logical theory to me as to who killed the Moors. There's a theory that it was a serial killer that is linked to over a dozen other crimes. All of these cases have been have pretty convincing characteristics in common. All the cases were close to train tracks, which means that whoever did it was using the train to move from town to town and quickly leave after. The killer used an axe to kill their victims in their sleep, and most importantly, using the blunt end of the axe. Okay. Their victims and the mirrors were routinely covered in fabric or sheets, and none of the scenes showed forced entry.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Okay, so this is the most likely suspect for sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

The author of the book, Man from the Train, thinks this points directly to a man named Paul Mueller, who was a railroad worker and had multiple axe tattoos. Oh, okay. Yeah. I've heard the book is really compelling. Um again, it's called The Man on the Train by Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James. Uh so check that out if you I've heard it's a really good book. Since then, the house has passed through multiple hands, but in 1994, Darwin and Martha Lynn bought the property with the intention of repairing it and renovating the structure to its original design. So people who go to the house today are in an exact replica of what the house looked like in June 2000 uh 1912. Okay. You can still see axe marks in the ceilings in the bedrooms, which is just weird and creepy and sad. Uh the Lynn's bought the house because they believed it was an important part of history, and to their best knowledge, the house was not haunted. Most reports of any haunting come after the renovation was complete.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Right. So whether this is because renovations are known to start ghostly activity or because it was become a place for paranormal enthusiasts and visitors to start increase the act like that increase the activity, no one really knows. But the things that have happened there are directly linked to the Moors and Stillingers and their untimely and awful demises. In Richard Estepp's book, A Nightmare in Veliska, he describes a popular TV show called something like Spectre Venture.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

That interviewed a paranormal investigator named Chris Deadman in 2010. Deadman, which is an amazing name for a paranormal investigator. Wow. Um spent the night in the Moorhouse and called it his night in hell. Okay. He describes using a spirit box in the parlor. And after asking who was in the house, he heard a voice from the box say, Reverend Kelly. Oh shit. Deadman asked who was speaking, and he says he heard the word Legion. Usually this refers to a story in the Bible where Jesus asks a dark spirit its name and it responds, My name is Legion, for we are many. Yeah. Deadman says that he felt like he got the wind knocked out of him by an invisible force and found scratches on his back in the shape of an L.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

This was preceded by a case he was investigating for a family wherein someone invited in what he thinks is a demonic presence that followed him to the Velisca murder house. Okay. He believes that he has been marked and he's only been back to the Moorhouse once in daytime. The host's show, the show's host, uh, Mac. I just don't want to I don't want to get sued. Then interviews two women who lived in the house as kids. They said they once heard a little girl's voice coming from the room the Stillinger sisters were found in, and their father was once stabbed in the stomach with a kitchen knife he was sharpening.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Oh my god. Like paranormally, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

While the sisters are in the house with Mac in this episode, he pulls out a recorder and says he wants to bring one of the sisters, Linda, closure and asks whatever is there if it will speak to him. He gets a pretty clear EVP that says where is she? They also get an EVP later that says I killed six kids. Oh my god. Is the amount of children who were murdered. It is a little confusing why the spirit of the murderer would be haunting the Moorhouse, because he didn't die in the Moore House. Right. But one could argue that he was maybe like pulled back to the house after death because of the heinous way he murdered eight people. The team is in the barn listening to the EVPs. The cameras inside the empty house capture three footsteps in the hallway and the attic door slamming shut on its own. The team go back inside to perform a spirit box session. For anyone who doesn't know what a spirit box is, it's essentially a device that uses radio frequencies to quickly scan through radio channels. And people say it's possible for spirits to use the frequencies to speak in between scans. So while in the front room of the house, the first word they get from the spirit box is Lena. And shortly after hear what is a child's voice. The team thinks the voice is saying wanna play, but it's ultimately too scrambled to get anything definitive. Mac asks if the kid, the little kid lives at the house and what their name is, and they hear Paul.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Which is the youngest child's name. At another point, another EVP picks up the name Herman. Uh Spectre Venture is obviously a show that relies on watchers to believe what they are seeing and hearing. So a lot of the EVPs and spirit box sessions are sensationalized. But what we just discussed is what ESTEP agrees is intelligible. And even though it's not as fun as I'm a demon, hear my sinister laugh and eat souls for the fuck of it, what they do catch is intelligible and pretty interesting. The neighbor who lives next door to the Moore House, the same house that Mary lived in in 1912, his name is Johnny Hauser. And I just need you all to know that Johnny Hauser is a band that all of us need to know. Okay. You will find. He is kind, he's compassionate, he's funny, he's just like a cool fucking dude. Okay. So he is like the caretaker of the Moore House. And so he's done a lot of work to make sure the house is kept clean, uh, and like all the repairs kept up on. He admitted to Estep that he's somewhat obsessed with the house and that he's pretty sure something paranormal followed him home next door.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I mean, I feel like you would have to be obsessed with the house to want to be like the caretaker of it. Yes. And also if there is a house that something will follow you home in, it's probably this one. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

Johnny has spent a lot of time in the house alone and has experienced physical attacks and nausea, but he now claims that his family next door is also experiencing these symptoms.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

They also heard scratching and growling in their own home, the same sounds that Johnny has heard in the room that the Stillinger girls were murdered. He says that the sounds don't sound like a human or an animal and are often followed by the sound of a woman sighing or gasping.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Johnny says that once when he was alone in the house and he heard someone yell his name, he ha apparently had a feeling it was Mary and told her to open a door to which a door in his immediate proximity opened on its own. Johnny's little girl said she had a ghost friend named Hattie in their own house, next, like in Johnny's house. Yeah. And at some point refused to go upstairs to her room because Hattie was being a bitch. Oh wow. My words, not hers. I was gonna say uh a little research would discover that Hattie Peckham was Mary Peckham's adult daughter who inherited the house after Mary died. I have heard that after the murders, Mary went a little crazy and was Admitted. And she died like six months after. Oh my god. Johnny's daughter, who was three at the time, eventually stopped mentioning Hattie, only to bring her up years later. She asked Johnny if he remembered Hattie, and he said he did. She told him that Hattie used to watch her sleep, but no one ever thought Hattie was a negative entity instead like just finding comfort and knowing that she was probably watching over his daughter. A woman named Christy, who gives tours of the Moorhouse, says that she has heard footsteps coming up the stairs and has been touched sometimes inappropriately by something that she can't see. A medium from a popular paranormal show named Amy Allen did an investigation along with her detective partner and corroborated a lot of these stories. When Amy gets to the property, she says she feels a quote, angry, disfigured woman.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Oh. Amy's a trip. I just have to say, if you've never seen her investigate something, you have to. I had never heard of her. Oh, she has a show. I don't know what it's called, but it's her and this detective dude. Yeah. And they like investigate, like she goes in and investigates on her own, and then he comes back and says, like, this is what happened. And usually she's spot on. But she's a trip, like, very entertaining to watch her.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I'm glad you knew who I was talking about because I've never seen that. Yeah. She says that the woman is angry because she allowed somebody in that she shouldn't have. Oh. We could assume that this is Sarah more, since all the victims were disfigured in the act, and Sarah was the only grown woman in the house. Uh Amy then claims to hear from another spirit that it wasn't Sarah's fault, but Josiah's because he was a cheater, cheater pumpkin eater.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Well, he's eating something.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

My word. Donna. And it wasn't pumpkin. Yeah. It was Donna. At one point, Amy finds Sarah Moore in the front yard, and she's super pissed at anyone who was not dead. Amy says that the woman is directing a lot of her anger at a living male and says, quote, You're a guilty motherfucker and you know it. And you know what? Josiah the philanderer is a guilty motherfucker. Yeah. Fucking sing it, Sarah. Amy reiterates that Sarah feels responsible for what happened, but also blames her husband. Amy says that Sarah gave the impression that she knew the murderer because she shows herself to Amy in the corner of her bedroom, clutching one of her children and yelling, Why aren't you doing anything? How can you let them do this? Oh my god. But to me, this feels like Sarah reliving these terrible moments and watching the living come in and out of the scene without helping her.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Like a residual energy, and that would explain why she's so pissed at the living. Yeah. Amy goes into what ESTEP refers to as the cylinder room, and she picks up the energy of two young females and guesses one of them is eight or nine. This is a very famous case, and this information is really easily distilled in the public so that it's not super impressive or proof of her abilities. But then Amy says one of the spirits of the girls likes to growl at people to start startle them, which corroborates what was happening to Johnny in that room. Yeah. She said she saw a little girl bearing her teeth and growling with her fingers like claws, which is something a kid in the afterlife would do to fuck with people. I find this endearing for some reason, like a kid being a big thing. Oh my god, I don't. I'm gonna scare him.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Like it's just like having fun. I think that when somebody says the term bearing their teeth, that automatically to me is like, that's not funny. Well, it's just like a kid doing it, though. I know I get it, but like that term, I guess, just to me is like a snarl of like something evil.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Right. Uh Amy also described the same side and back pain that Johnny experiences in the room. In these situations, it's difficult to segregate, to segregate between feelings, between what the spirit is telling the medium and what the person experiences a lot. So, like at this point, Amy might be picking up on what like Johnny is broadcasting into the space. Okay. Right. So later Amy claims that it is Lena who likes to pick on the living for attention and that she also knew the person who killed her. At one point, Amy sees a religious man outside in the barn and draws a picture of him who dramatically resembles Reverend Kelly. She said Kelly told her he quote really liked torturing them, but does not explain the statement. This does not coincide with the evidence found at the scene, because none of them were tortured per se. Amy goes on to say that she thinks Kelly is partly responsible for what happened to the Moors and Stillingers, however, three other people were also responsible, she thinks.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Okay, I was kind of thinking that like maybe he wasn't like maybe he did have something to do with it and wasn't the only person that was there.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

And one of the theories is that this was more than one person. Okay. Because again, going back to what you said, how did how did no one wake up? Yeah. Another reason is the amount of energy and stamina it would take to kill eight people is 20 to 30 like slings. Yeah. Lance Armstrong could not have done that even when he was doping.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Uh like that's you know, his power is in his legs, so true.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Something I didn't mention is that whoever did this killed them all and then went back through the house and hit the victims again. Holy shit. So it's just not logical to me that one person did that.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yeah, it sounds like somebody did it and then Reverend Kelly went back through to be like, I'm doing it too.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

I guess. So even though some things that Amy says don't quite match up, I think she's really picking up on something here when she says that there is a bit of conspiracy around the deaths and that more than one person did it. Also, Lena and Sarah saying that they knew their attacker could potentially be Reverend Kelly since he was at the same church meeting as them earlier. Right. During the investigation, Amy also heard a man's voice say, make sure they're all dead and there's no place to run. Jesus, that's sinister. Yeah. Amy investigates Johnny's house and actually finds that most of the spirits from the Moorhouse stay in Johnny's house because the energy is nicer there. Okay. Uh mostly just hanging out in the downstairs living room. Okay. Which makes me happy that they have someplace to go that they find comfort in. Johnny says that the downstairs of his house is actually very peaceful and nice. Uh, but the upstairs is disruptive with like door slamming and apparitions appearing. Okay. So you're gonna be house guest and cause mayhem. I for he is providing a space for you. Yeah. And you're just gonna fuck around. Right. Another show in 2019 went to the house, and guess who is part of the medium team? I mean, I know who it is. It's Chip Chip Hooray. They interview a man named John who was a paranormal investigator, and after investigating the house, he believes he was cursed and refuses to go back. He tells the team that during an EVP session they hear a voice on the recorder say, Just kill John Blank. Oh my god. Using his last name. After the investigation, numerous friends and family members suffered emergencies and deaths, and John felt like he was responsible because he went to the house. Which is a lot to carry. Yeah. I would definitely think it was my fault. I know you would. Uh, don't do that though. It should be said that Estep, who seems to carry a healthy amount of skepticism, says when he hears the EVP on this particular episode, he doesn't hear anything that he could make out as a language. He's very like, he'll tell you, like, eh, I don't think this EVP really was anything. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I know you're waiting to see what Chip said. Yes, I'm anxiously awaiting to hear what Chip said because Chip is the best psychic in the world. I guess as far as I'm concerned. Love Chip.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

I know there's like conspiracy around him and Ryan and money, but I Chip forever. Yes. I haven't seen this episode that he's referring to, but I was a little disappointed with what was included, only because I will be a chip supporter for life. Chip says that he didn't get anything from the family, which makes sense if they're at Johnny's house, but he did pick up on the killer. He says, quote, this sick, psychosexual, perverse sense of doing it, he got off on this. And he goes on to say that the killer's demeanor was calm, which due to the bacon slab that was used to be a fucking pervert, this checks out that the killer was not in a hurry. Yeah. Estep does point out that the chances of the killer spirit being at this house is once again weird and confusing. And I do agree, but I think some mediums are probably able to pick up on the energy or spirit of the environment rather than just that of the person.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Yeah, but I also kind of feel like there's so many theories about what heaven and hell are. Like maybe this is like that person's version of hell that they were like cast back to this place where they did something horrific. And they just have to like relive that terrible energy.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah. Finally, in the summer of 2020, Richard Estep and his friend Sarah set out to investigate the house themselves. This next part made me laugh. When Estep and Sarah drive into the town around four in the afternoon, they see a man in the middle of the road on a motorcycle wearing ray bands with a beard and covered in tattoos. Estep says he was, quote, the most American human being I've ever met. That man was Johnny Hauser. Oh, okay. If I was a house, if I was a ghost, if I was a house, I'd be big as fuck. If I was a ghost, I would also live in his house. He sounds pretty rap. He sounds like a blast in a glass. Yeah. Estep is a paranormal investigator, so he's obviously aware that there's evidence of the paranormal, even though he writes books about it in his spare time, his full-time job as a paramedic. Shout out to first responders. Thanks for doing what you do. But he admits he isn't sensitive to energy and spirits, but even he can tell that the house feels off. Okay. Before they begin their investigation, Estep and Sarah drive to the local cemetery to pay tribute to the Moors and Stillingers. But before they leave, Estep spells out a word with Scrabble letters on the dresser to test to see if someone or something will move them. When they get back from the cemetery, the letters have not been moved. But Sarah uses her own Scrabble sets to spell out the words Lena, Boyd, Catherine, Sarah, Ina, Herman, Paul, and Josiah. Did you bring 15 Scrabble? I was gonna say, how how much how much did she bring? Yeah. She does that on the downstairs bed. And the attic, they use the letters to spell out Axe, Reverend, Killer, Blood, Murder, Attic, Veliska, and Mirror. Okay, that's a lot of words. It's uh that's a lot of scrabble. Yeah. After setting up some equipment in the cylinder room, they go into the master bedroom and do what I consider the worst idea ever and break out a Ouija board. Oh god, no. I will give Sarah this. She starts out by saying that only good intention spirits are allowed to use the board. I still do not condone this behavior, but they're consenting adults, so whatever. Also, better you than me.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Yeah, I'm not using one.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

They're I don't even allow decorations. No, me either. So they're sitting on the floor with the board on the bed of Sarah and Josiah, huddled together in the dark, their hands on the planchette, they're asking questions, they're saying names, they're trying to coax anything or anyone to tell them what happened in this dark, empty house. Then all of a sudden, right in his ear, Estep hears an insanely loud British voice say, Sorry, I couldn't find that. And he almost shoots his pants. Okay, where is this bread coming from? Uh, it was Sarah Siri. It was what? It was Siri on Sarah's phone. For real? Yeah. Siri is always going off at the wrong fucking time.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Like, oh my god, get the fuck out of here. I mean, I know like my Alexa goes off all the time and it freaks me out. But like can you imagine you imagine you're doing a little like Ouija board session and all of a sudden somebody's about to get something?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Like, fuck off, Siri. Christ. They move on to the children's room where Sarah's sitting on one of the beds and Estep sitting on the floor. Suddenly they hear what sounds like someone sitting on one of the beds. Like they can hear the springs moving as if being squished down. Yeah. And then they hear the sounds like in reverse as if someone's getting off the bed. They checked the entire bed and found nothing that could make that sound. The bed had not made a noise before that and didn't make a noise after that. Nothing else paranormal happened that night, but that is because something creepy as fuck happened that would have made me apologize to Siri and ask her to call the police. Okay. It's 3 a.m. and they see headlights pull into the driveway behind Estep's car. The truck sits behind his car for five minutes. No one gets out. They just sit there. It's a middle of nowhere town. No stores or bars are open. There's no reason for anyone in this town to even be awake.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Let alone driving around.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Right. The truck takes off down the street, circles the block, comes back, parks behind his car again. Okay. It just sits there. It does this three times before finally taking off so quickly the tires squeal. I am not afraid of ghosts, but I am terrified of strange fucking people in the middle of nowhere staring at the house I am in at 3 a.m. Yeah, no kidding. I have seen the hills have eyes. You're not tricking me into leaving this fucking house. I am now a resident. Right. I don't think I'm leaving even in the daytime. Fuck that. They decide to call in a night because the ghosts are chill, but the residents of Vallisca are menacing. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. On the second day, Estep goes outside to feed a cat he named Mr. Gray that he had made friends with the day before. While Sarah's inside the parlor. He comes back inside and Sarah asks if he had come inside before then, and he says no, and she tells him she heard three distinct footsteps above her in the kids' room and a huge bang in the attic. Oh shit. They ran upstairs, nothing's out of place, nothing's in the attic or the kids' room. After they come out of the attic, they noticed that the closet door is open, even though it was closed during their initial walkthrough that day.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Esepp started to question why nothing had happened until they were separated, uh, since Sarah was alone in the house when the footsteps and loud bang happened. He set up a Tesla coil in the Stillinger room to try to draw energy. I didn't know what a Tesla coil was before this, but the device has a thing, like a metal arm, and spins out a central point. So as the arm spins, it emits glowing jets of blue plasma out of either end. It lights up the room with a blue light. I'm guessing it's for like energy for spirits to use. Estep has a scheduled call with a friend named Steven that night. Steven is another paranormal investigator and is what we would call a medium, but Estep calls him intuitive. They're on the phone, and Steven says there's a lot of energy in the room downstairs, which is where they have the Tesla coil. He explains that he thinks the energy is coming from a blue device.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

This is the guy on the phone. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

He says the closet upstairs has the most energy with a talkative spirit who will probably show up on an EVP. He confirms that anything in the house is human and not demonic, and that the majority of the spirits in the house do not come from the house but were attached to attracted to it. Oh. He says the staircase and the two kids' rooms are the most active, and he confirmed that the killer's spirit is not there. He tells Estep to make sure to protect himself because the spirits are most interested in him because of his curiosity. He says that he has an aura around him that the spirits are putting there. So after the phone call, Estep goes to the closet in the Stillinger room, and Sarah sits across from him on the floor. They bust out some dousing rods. Have you ever seen this? And they immediately start moving when they start asking questions. Um in case anyone doesn't know, dousing rods look like bent antennas, and the user holds one in each hand, and then they like ask yes or no questions and the they'll like go in for no and out for yes. Like what they're just like little rods that move. Sarah says that if you're a girl, move the rods away from each other. And if you're a boy, move them together. The rods move away from each other, meaning they were talking to a girl. The rods continue to move as asked questions. The information that comes out is that it's a girl is older than 10 but younger than 15, and later comes out that the girl's 11, which is the age Lena was when she died. But when they ask the spirit if she died in the room, it says no. Esteb asks if the spirit has been lying to them about who they are, and the spirit says yes. Oh, spirit uses the I know, like for fuck's sake. This is not hard enough. Right. The spirit uses the rod to say that they play tricks on people in the house, but when asked if the spirit really was an 11-year-old girl, the rod stopped moving. Okay. Chris Deadman, the paranormal investigator that was on the show Spectre Venture, uh, was going to help Estep and Sarah with their investigation and called Estep shortly after the dousing rods stopped working. Deadman's first investigation in the Moorhouse was in 2008, and we he recanted how while sitting in the parlor, a dark figure about the size of a child kept darting back and forth in the hallway. He also said that when he was walking up the stairs, he felt something push him back, and he thought it was the residual energy of the killer leaving the house. Oh. Estep does not agree with this since the killer didn't rush out of the house, but thinks it could be the residual energy of the killer walking down the stairs to the Stillinger room. He also describes the closet door in the kids' room opening and closing in response to questions he asked. Next, Estep and Sarah make their way to the kids' room upstairs and use what he calls the human pendulum. Okay. Basically, is what it sounds like. A person uses their body as a pendulum, so the spirit chooses how to use the person's body to answer yes and no questions. Okay. In this case, Sarah stands in the middle of the room and the spirits indicate that Sarah leaning forward is yes and leaning backwards is no. Okay. I think I would want to be this person. No. Whether or not this technique is subconscious or paranormal is up for debate. Right. Sounds suspicious to me. Right, but we're leaning in now, so we're going for broke here. The spirit in the kids' room indicates that they are not the only spirit in the room, and that the spirit they're speaking to did not die in the house, and that it was drawn there by the murders. It says it is not the murderer and it came to the house to help. Which what a sweetie. Just a friendly ghost trying to help other ghosts. But then the spirit indicates it is not human but has good intentions. Estep asks if the spirit is being honest and it indicates it is. It also says that it does not want to talk to Sarah and only wants to talk to him. Oh. Then they hear a noise of something moving in the master bedroom, and Estep asks if that was the spirit who made that noise, to which it says no. And knows what spirit made the noise, but it will not tell him who did it. Just then Sarah feels cold air around her feet, and ESTEP asks if it's another spirit that just came in the room, to which the spirit says yes, and that they are not friends, and the spirit does not like the newcomer. You don't have to stay here.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

But at the same time, he's been there longer. The newcomer can go. Right. But like but you can leave.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

But I mean, maybe he thinks of it as his house. I maybe. The spirit says it can travel to other places, but it's always in the Moorhouse. Estep keeps asking if Sarah is allowed to ask questions and the spirit keeps denying her access. At one point they hear a loud thump in the living room, but had to continue talking to the spirit before they could investigate. At some point the spirit stops communicating, so they close out the session and start a new one using Sarah as the pendulum again. Estep asks for a new spirit to talk to, and the answers start firing off. Your cat just scared the shit out of me. Um this spirit says that it is a female who came in with a visitor who stayed because she liked the other spirits in the house and shares that although there are a lot of spirits in the house, not all of them are nice. She also tells them that she doesn't like them asking questions because she doesn't want them finding out something they shouldn't know. Oh. He starts asking questions about the murderer of the Morrison Stillingers and starts to get excited about the answers he's getting, only to find out that this spirit too is just fucking with them.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Oh my god. After so this is just like a whole like clownhouse of spirits. They're just having a good time. They're just like, everybody's gonna come here and see us, so we might as well just fuck with them. Time is on my side and I got nothing of it. And I have nothing better to do.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yeah. After this experiment, it's 3:30 in the morning and they decide to try to sleep in the house. Sarah's in a bed upstairs in the kids' room, and E step goes downstairs to make sure the door is locked. When he gets back upstairs, Sarah tells him that she heard wind chimes. There are a set of wind chimes on the closet door, and multiple people have said that they hear the wind chimes go off on their own. Sarah says there's no way Estep exiting or entering entering the room caused them to move since they had been going in and out of the room the whole night without them moving. Estep sets up cameras on the door and hallway before trying to get some sleep. The next morning. He was just disappointed to discover that the closet door was still shut, nothing in the attic had moved. Sarenhi left the house and couldn't help but be a little disappointed that they didn't catch more evidence. That day, however, Estep would learn some things from a fellow investigator that would make his return to the Velisca axe murder house inevitable. Don Byrie had a blog on her opinion on what was happening in the Velisca house, and in summary, she discusses two trickster spirits that are responsible for the majority of the activity that pretend to be Aina and Lena. She also describes what is called a negative thought form that looks to be a black mass in the attic. A negative thought form, from what I can render, is basically a shit ton of bad energy based on negative thoughts, words, and actions that end up tangling all together in one mass. Okay. She believed that this mass was there before the murders. Oh, and that thousands of visitors, visitors that come from the house just feed into it. Okay. She says the growling is coming from this negative thought form and that it's somehow it communicates. Two brothers, Seth and Jesse, who are in the film industry, visited the house and had a fuck-ass experience with this negative thought form. Okay. They said they saw this huge black mass with red eyes in the attic. When they saw the mass, they froze and one of them started crying because who wouldn't? Right. Jesse said that it started slithering up to him. Oh my god. And he covered his face with his hands. The mass started hissing at him. What the fuck? What in the fucking Harry Potter is that shit? Remember earlier when I said I'm not afraid of ghosts? Yeah. Well, I am afraid of things that slither and hiss at me and are the human beings. Big black masses. Yeah. Later, Jesse had an experience that would change him forever. He was in the basement with his team and the smoke came in through the basement wall. The smoke turned into a snake-like creature and started to coil itself around his legs. It slithered up to eye level and its face turned into the face of a woman. Jesse ran out of the house and took refuge in the barn. He just kept repeating, All I see is hell, referring to seeing, quote, souls being cast into lakes of fire or being torn apart. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

He never investigated another paranormal case again. Oh my God. Can you imagine though? Like it's the middle of the night and you're so scared in the house that you run to a fucking barn. Yeah. Like, no, I don't think I'm gonna go to the barn, but I'm so fucking scared. I have no other choice. Right. I think I'd go in my car and leave.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

And leave immediately. When Estep asked Johnny about this, Johnny said that they were some of the most honorable investigators to ever come out to the house. And ESTEP couldn't help himself, he had to go back with this new information and test it out.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Well, yeah, like why is it just this group of people or these two people that are having these two very specific things happen to them and nobody else has said that that's happened to them. Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

And Johnny saying, like they were very honorable investigators. Yeah. Right. On this house. Yeah. This time ESTEP took Steven, the medium that had called him that first night. Okay. Um, and his friend Eric, who was then working on his medium abilities and is also a paranormal investigator. They start off some EVP sessions and Steven placed a pyramid at the top of the stairs, which is an ultrasonic sensor that will tell you if something is standing in front of it. Steven was in the master bedroom when he said the pyramid went off, but he wasn't anywhere near it, so he knew it wasn't his presence making it go off. And then suddenly the air conditioner turned on by itself. Wait, this place has air conditioning? Well, it was renovated. And so it's like a window air conditioner. Okay. It's an old air conditioner and it's not on a timer or a smartphone. Uh, you have to physically turn the dial for it to turn on. Steven moved the pyramid to the master bedroom next to Sarah and Josiah's bed and went back downstairs. The team was replaying an old ghost investors investigator episode of the show Ghost Lab, where the pyramid was when the pyramid started going off non-stop. Steven went back upstairs to put a recorder in the room to try to catch EVPs where something was obviously hanging out. When Steven came back downstairs, Eric was annoyed because while they were trying to watch their show in one of the most haunted locations in the country, the pyramid wouldn't stop going off.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

So wait a second, these dudes come to investigate and they're like, let's watch some TV. Yes, on their phone. Because they're just like waiting for something to happen.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

It's giving Taurus energy. I don't give a fuck who's making the noise. You're harsh in my calm vibe. Yeah. Okay. But Eric is like, who's making the noise? It won't stop going off. And Steven tells him it does stop going off sometimes, specifically when Steven goes upstairs where it's located. And as soon as he says that, it goes off again. Okay. So it won't stop, it will stop going off when Steven is by it. Okay. And then when Steven comes back downstairs, it stops again. Okay. Steven starts to feel bad vibes on the staircase, so the team goes over to the stairs with a recorder and starts to ask questions, which I love that about paranormal investigators. They're like, I fucking hate the energy in this room. Let's go in there and fuck around. Right. But no matter where they go in the house, the bedrooms, the attic, the parlor, they get nothing. So keep in mind this is Estep's second time in this house, and he gets nothing of consequence that makes him think that this is a crazy haunted place. So when Estep is on his way back to the house for his third investigation, he gets a text from Johnny saying that the house has a weird energy today and that people are leaving the house in tears, including a kid who got grabbed by something. So his hopes are high that he'll finally catch something of significance of one day. No idea. Okay. This time Estep is bringing a group of investigators. Jason, Charlie, Caitlin, and Sarah, who's back from the first one. When they get to the house, they set up their equipment and settle in until dark. Once the sun goes down, they start an EVP session, but only get a class C E VP, which means you can hear what sounds like a whisper, but not enough to know what it's saying. This time Esteb isn't fucking around though. He suggests a Ouija board session in the attic. At first nothing's happening until Caitlin tells the spirits to move the planchette and to think of it as a game. That's when the planchette zooms off the board on its own. Caitlin puts the planchette back in the middle of the board and tells the spirit to move it to the number of the spirit's age, and the planchette moves to the number seven, which was the age Arthur was when he passed away. She asks if the spirit is a female and the board says no. She asks the first letter of his name and it says T. She says, Is your name Thomas? And it says yes. Caitlin wants to make sure she isn't subconsciously moving the planchette on her own, so she asks ESEP to do what she calls the finger test, which sounds like something my husband would ask me to do. Uh ESEP holds up six fingers behind his back. Jason takes a picture of them. Caitlin asks the spirit how many fingers he's holding up, and it moves to the number six. Okay. So this happens three more times correctly. The spirit goes on to say that it does not live in the house. It doesn't have a friend who lived in the house. It says that it did used to live in the house next door, Johnny's house, but it didn't die in the house. Before ceasing all communication with the team, the spirit indicates its body is buried in the town cemetery. They decide to move to the Stillinger room, and while sitting in a circle, they tell the spirit to poke Estep in the back. Nothing touches him, but all five of them hear a low growl. Oh God, no. They quickly bust out the board again and ask the spirit if it wants to play the number game again and it says yes. The spirit fails the number test three times, so Caitlin asks if they're still talking to Thomas and it says no. She asks asks it's sex and it refuses to answer. She asks if it's human and it says no. Caitlin wants to test a theory that Johnny had brought up. Johnny thinks that so much energy has passed through this house and that so much energy is built up. He thinks that the house is actually haunting itself. Okay, that like makes sense somehow. Yes, right? Yeah. Caitlin asks if they are talking to the house and the planchette refuses to move. She asks whatever they are talking to if they are happy in the house and it says no. She asks if they can leave and the planchette flies off the board across the room. Okay, I'll take that as a no. Right. They put it back and ask if anyone else wants to communicate when they suddenly hear three loud knocks right above them, as if someone had knocked hard on the ceiling of the room. Okay. This excitement pushes the team to do an estes method. This is my favorite method. If you don't know what an estin estus method is, no, I have no idea. It's my favorite. That's it. Okay. Just kidding. Basically, one person is blindfolded and puts on noise canceling headphones that are connected to a spirit box. So that person is hearing the flipping of the radio stations, which basically sounds like static, with little blips of talking. The other person asks the spirit questions, assuming the spirit will use the box to communicate. The person connected to the box shouts out the words that they hear. Okay. Which to them feels random since they can't hear the questions being asked. Um so like it's fascinating to watch sometimes, like, because it will like match up. Yeah. They continue with the estus method, but nothing ever comes of it. Right after, however, they're recapping the session, and all five of them hear very loud barks that sound like a dog. They check in and out of the house, but there are no dogs anywhere. Estep hypothesizes that these are the sounds of the bloodhounds the police used after the bodies were discovered. Okay. Um, this was the last investigation in Estep's book, but he has no doubts that something lives inside that house. He just isn't sure what or who.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

It just sounds like a whole Mod Podge of spirits live in this house. Yeah. That they've just basically been like, there's high energy here and we will thrive, so let's go here.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

And there's people coming in and out all the time looking for us. Yeah so we can like feed off of that. He wraps up by saying that he hopes the Moors have moved on and that they are not stuck in the hill that they died in for eternity. Right. I mean, I obviously hope that too. So obviously, Johnny Hauser has been interviewed multiple times on what he has experienced in the Moorhouse, being the caretaker and the next door neighbor. He has more than enough stories to tell that would make anyone feel like they are going to run into the paranormal. Yeah. One story story he repeatedly tells people is that one night he is in the house making repairs on the bed upstairs when he hears someone come in the house and shut the door. The door was locked, so he knew that someone was breaking in. He thinks that it's probably a teenager that wanted to see the house or was there to be daring and bold, which this is so cute. Sam and Colby are paranormal investigators that have channel on YouTube, and that's like where this interview came from. And on this episode, Sam and Colby ask about the house, and he says, I would have just shown him around if he had asked. Like, I love this man. Just watching him on this episode, he had the kindest energy. Someone you could like drink a coarse light with around a bonfire until feel totally safe and at ease. He's just the kindest man. Anyway, he thinks to himself, Well, they don't know I'm up here because they just broke in, so I'm gonna scare the shit out of them. Oh my god. Okay. He hides in the kids' room closet and he hears them come into the room. He said you could hear and feel it, like the footsteps come into the room. So he kicks the door open, a hundred percent ready to jump out and scare this person, and there's nothing there.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Oh my god. It took him three days to go back in the house. Yeah, I definitely would have been like, time for me to go.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Yeah, I feel like that says a lot because he's in there more than more than the owners, more than anyone, and he's constantly cleaning it and fixing it and doing tours, and he lives next door. For so for this man, who by the way is a big guy, he looks like a big tough biker who would not hesitate to punch a dude for being a dick, for him to be so scared that he wouldn't go back in the house for three days, that like That's saying something for sure. Obviously, that scared the fuck out of him. Johnny also tells Sam and Colby that Deborah and Tony Pickman from the Sally House, uh, that the episode we just did. Yeah, visited the Moorhouse, and the minute Tony walked in, he said, Whatever was in my house is in this house. What the fuck? Also, this is so fucking crazy. The Sally House and the Moorhouse are the same address. Oh shit. Both houses are 508 East 2nd Street. Oh my god. Isn't that crazy? That's nuts. Everyone needs to go watch that Sam and Colby episode because just meeting Johnny is worth it. Um, but also it's one of the like more intense episodes. He needs to write a book. Who, Johnny? Yeah. Oh, I think so too. Later in the episode, uh, when they start investigating, Sam and Colby and their two friends do an Estes method in the attic. Right away in the beginning, it sounds like someone is coming in the house. And then Colby, who is the one in the Estes method, says, Mystery, if anyone is here, these are separate. Mystery. If anyone is here, special. Family, me, record that. They hadn't even started asking questions before these words came up. They start asking who was with them, and Colby says, fired and end this. When all of a sudden you can hear a door slam shut behind the camera, and they start to smell something that smells like metal. Oh my god. They move the Estes session to the Stillinger room, and the first thing Colby says while under is I think it was right here. Cold, please, and you walk away. As soon as someone mentions Reverend Kelly, Colby yells, that would be able to get away with it. When they ask who would be able to get away with it, he says lies and screaming. At one point, he says in the Estes method, he says, run, had to run, and follows up with no choice, it was worth it. They ask, Who are you? multiple times, and each time Colby says, you know. Mind you, Colby can't hear the questions they're asking. Like he's in noise-cancelling headphones with static blasting in his ear. So like they're asking him questions and they're the his answers are like lining up with them. Yeah. They then start a spirit box session and it said train tracks enabled them. Oh wow. They then do another Estes method with Sam in the closet of the Stillinger room, and immediately upon putting the headphones, he says, put out the lamp. He says, Thanks for being here. You'll see why I'm so excited. When they ask if he was the one who committed the murders, Sam says, Didn't you guys talk about this in the beginning? I should point out here that very rarely do spirit boxes or SIS methods have full sentences. Full sentences, yeah. Um, it's usually like one word and you wait a long time to get a string of words that you could put together. Uh, but both Colby and Sam are hearing full-on sentences. At the end, Sam says, I am the reverend. They conclude that the more emotional they get about their responses, the more the spirit box goes off, and they think that spirits are fucking with them. Right. Kind of like, how worked up can we get them? Yeah. They do one last SS method, and their friend Nate goes under. When Colby says, I think you're playing tricks with us, Nate says, It's tricky. Okay. It's tricky. Two rocker rhyme, two rocker rhyme, that's right on time. It's tricky. Nate then says, horse. And Sam asks if the spirit worked on a farm. And Nate says, laughing, good answer, good answer. This goes back to the train man theory. Paul Mueller had worked on a farm right before his first murder. On that farm, there was a horse with a broken leg, and Paul fixed the leg, but that was right before he had murdered everyone in the house. So him saying horse. Yeah. They're thinking Paul Mueller. Right. Nate then says, so many, passion, and horn. And instantly the lights go off in the entire house.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

Okay, that combined with the word horn. No, I'm gonna leave now.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Right. They ask the spirit if he's using their equipment for energy, and Nate says it allows for greater. And he then says, town from town. Sam asks if the spirit knows Paul, and Nate says, yes. And it's right there. Nate then says, I enjoyed it. They ask, Did you make Paul do it? And Nate says, if I was him. And Sam, talking to the other two in the room, says, The spirit is saying, I made him do it, I would have enjoyed it if I was him. Yeah. And Nate says yes twice. Like Nate can't hear Sam say that. Oh my god. Their conclusion after the investigation is that the murders were committed by a traveling serial killer. Whether or not it was Paul Mueller, they're not sure. To this day, no one actually knows who or what is haunting the Moore House. Is it the Moors? Is it the killer? Have hundreds of spirits been channeled to the house because of its energy? Is the house itself sentient? Like, yeah. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

It just seems like a whole clusterfuck of shit going on. Like, first of all, I think the fact that they don't know who committed the murders just gives energy to the actual house for like other spirits to come to. I just feel like that get that gives a negative energy for sure. There's no sense of conclusion. Conclusion or justice. Or closure. There's no closure. And so it's just this evil energy harboring this place forever because we'll probably never know who did this. So I feel like it it's kind of like a almost like a portal.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

For evil to come and go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

And that would make sense because Tony Pikman going there and being like, whatever was in my house is in this house. For sure. And I do think that like there you could theorize that like demonic entities might all feel the same because they're not human. Yeah. But regardless, Tony Pikman coming in there and being like, this feels fucking familiar. Right. I I think a portal makes sense to me. Yeah. Because it it's like you rip time in that space. For sure. And I don't think anything could rip time like murdering children. For sure. Like innocent children who had nothing to do with anything. Right. Um, I think that that is the perfect space to create this like fountain of like energy and like call spirits to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:49

And the more that spirits are going in and out of it, the more energy is like getting trapped there. And record just getting like bigger and bigger and bigger. And it's now to the point where there's no differentiating between one spirit and the next. Right. There I don't think that any investigator is ever gonna go in there and definitively say this was so-and-so that I talked to in this house. Right. Because there are so many like tricksters, which us that's like that's worse than just being a residual spirit for sure. It definitely seems like it's just kind of circulating this bad energy constantly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:30

And I think it's interesting the thought of the house haunting itself, yeah. Like the house itself being the ghost. Yeah. And I think that also gives credence to the mediums who have come in and they've said they can like, you know, feel the murderer. Yeah. Like you're feeling the energy of the murderer, you're feeling the energy of afterwards, and you're feeling, and so that would make sense to me that it's it's really like much more complicated. Yeah. And I do just for my own peace of mind, think that the Moors are not there. No still injury. I think they're not there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:11

I don't think so either. I think this is just like what happened opened a horrible portal, and it's just coming and going of all types nonstop, and then people coming to visit isn't doing anything to dilute that. It's just bringing more energy every time somebody new comes through the door, and then these spirits are just feeding off of that, and it just like I said, it just becomes greater and greater and greater because everything is leaving its imprint. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:42

So after that, uh heavy one. Yeah. I told you that I would find a better, a more altruistic thing to do after you think.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Now, did you actually think of one?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

No. But I can say that. That we were talking about planning a little like Sasser family vacation. Sasser's our maiden name, by the way. Stop reading my text messages. I wasn't cozy. Um I really, really, really want to go inside the White House. Oh, me too. And like just look through all the shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

During Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

During Christmas, not while Trump is in presidency. And I also want to go to the vice president's house because like I didn't know where the vice president lived up until like two weeks ago when I finally was like, where the fuck does that motherfucker live? And I looked it up and it's on I think a naval base or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:42

Um, but it's a cute little house, and like I would love to see where the vice president lives.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

I had I had never asked where the vice president lives, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Because I was like, surely the vice president does not live in the White House with the president. They're not roommates, are they?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

Well, and that would be really stupid because if something happened to the White House and both of them died.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:02

Well, that'd be okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

I would be that disaster. Um, I mean, I hope I don't die while Trump is in office. Oh my god. For two reasons. One, that would be soon, or that motherfucker somehow took over still 20, 30, 40, 30. But I do have to say this. I love that Melania hates decorating the house for the house for Christmas. I heard when he got re-elected. She was like, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

Yeah, I actually heard the recording of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Yeah, I think I do. It was hilarious. I was like, she fucking hates it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Did you know that the people that help decorate are all volunteers? Like you can volunteer. It's you don't have to be a professional, you don't have to have worked for the presidency before. Like it's just all volunteer.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:56

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Yeah, so we missed our opportunity when Obama, the hot ass Obama was in office.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Obama come back. That man could be wearing a hot dog suit. Yes. I read both books that he's written. Um, I can't remember the names off the top of my head, uh, but they're so good. He's such a good author. He is such a passionate and compassionate man. Yeah. And he really went through it those first two years of his presidency, and he he got so much done, and it was so overshadowed by what was already fucked up. And I just we we didn't know what we had. No, we didn't. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

He is now up for an Emmy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

For what?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

So that show that I told you about with Larry David, there is a skit about his tan suit because it caused such an uproar. They did a little skit about it, and it's hilarious, and Obama is hilarious, and obviously Larry David is hilarious, and now Obama is up for an Emmy for that little short skit that he did. Obama is also like a producer on that show.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

Obama deserves every good thing any human being could ever have happen to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Doesn't he have doesn't he also have a Grammy? I think for like spoken word for like for like his book.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:30

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

I don't know. I'm probably making that up out of my head because I just want like each time to have a Grammy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

Daddy come back. Um Michelle was a real one because she stuck through him, like stuck it out with him when she was like, I don't want to be in the political spotlight. She straight up was like, I don't want to be the president's wife. I don't want, I just want a nice, quiet life. I just want to be an attorney, I just want to have a cute house with our kids. I I don't want this. And he was like, We're gonna do it, Michelle. And she was like, I fucking a that was kind of a good impression.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:09

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:11

And she was like, fucking A. And she did it, and she did it well, and she did it with great.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

Isn't it crazy to think the amount of intelligence and higher thinking that was in the White House at one point in time and the amount that is lacking now?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

We we didn't know what we had.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

We didn't know what we had, but we gotta get off this topic because this is not a political podcast, and it's a Zaddy podcast. It's not a Zaddy podcast, rather.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

Obama has taken the gold home for today.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

Okay, well, so um okay, other thing I would do is go visit Obama. Yeah, I was just gonna say, obviously, you're not going to the White House, you're going to uh fucking Obama's house. Oh yeah. The first thing I would do when I die, I think I might just go to Niagara Falls and dive off the cliff.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

Do you want to do that?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

No, I don't want to do that now. No, I'm saying, like, if you could do it without dying, would you do it? Without dying if I knew 100% like God came to me and was like, I'll let you do it this once, I then you won't die or get hurt, or get hurt. God himself said that to me that I would do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

That makes me so anxious. When I'm about to have a panic attack, the palms of my hands start hurting. The palms of my hands hurt so bad right now, thinking about just jumping off of waterfalls scare the fuck out of me.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

You have to understand. At the lake in our hometown, there's a place to jump off of rocks into the lake, and I won't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

I mean that's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

I mean, that is well like take take take all the risks that you couldn't take when you were alive. You could technically take take those risks, you're just a pussy. I don't think anybody's ever survived like going down Niagara Falls.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

No, I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

Yeah. Maybe one person did. I don't know. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:14

Didn't someone go down it in a barrel?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

I think he's the one that lived.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

That just sounds like some Looney Tunes shit.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:19

Right. I don't know how a barrel is gonna cushion your fucking fall, but uh it it may or may not have worked for you. I don't know if you died or not. If you're out there, if you're listening. Well, folks, that wraps up this week's episode. Thanks for hanging out with us, and we hope you were just as stressed out as we were. If you survived tonight's episode, make sure to follow, rate, and share the podcast with your haunted BFS.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

If you have a paranormal story that you think others need to hear, let us know at terrible toosometuesday at gmail.com. Make sure to title that subject line is my terrible Tuesday story, and please don't leave out any terrible details.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Also check out our Instagram at terrible toosome Tuesday. Give that page a follow if you want to be terrible too. That's all for this Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Don't miss out next week when we tell you the true haunted story of the Smurl House. Have a good week and see you next Tuesday.