SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to Terrible Tuesome Tuesday, where two sisters tell you a haunted story and every tale comes with a side of family drama. I'm Ashley. I'm Simone, and today's episode is the Sally House Haunting.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Welcome back, Ash. Yes, welcome back, Simone. I'm really excited for today's story.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

I'm really excited too because I wanted to do this story and then I found out you had already done the research. So I'm excited because I only got like a quarter of the way through my research before I realized that you had already done it, and I was super intrigued by it. So I don't know how this story plays out. So I'm excited to hear what happens. Well, it happens.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It's a doozy, eh? It's a doozy. So this has been discussed among Reddit threads, which we all know is the gospel of all knowledge in the world. Yes. Um, of one of the most believable paranormal stories out there. Um, and we'll see why. It's also kind of bonkers. There's some shit that I go, what what the fuck were you thinking? And then there's also some shit where I go, yeah, I would have probably left because I don't like fires. Oh, there's fire? Yeah. And we so just a quick quick story. Our dad was in building restoration, so buildings that like burned down or flooded. My dad would our dad would uh um rebuild them, right? And so he was like the contractor that would like do all that boring shit. And so he was um I wouldn't say terrified, but he was obsessed with our house burning down. A freak. Which makes us the a freak. So yeah, so we weren't allowed to have anything plugged in, like the toaster and the coffee maker had to be unplugged every day. And uh my friends would joke, like, oh, I knew you were at my house because all of my shit was unplugged. Um, and I didn't even like notice I was doing it.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

And see, I I would always go to my friend's house and turn off lights. Yes. Because he would always say, if we they left a light on, he would always say, I'm gonna come home to a burning hole in the ground. A smoking hole in the ground.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Because one time I said that to him and he said, It's smoking hole in the ground. Like, okay, thanks, Dad. So we have a little bit of a fear. I one time fun fact about both of us, we have obsessive compulsive disorder, and not the fun kind where you just like to organize shit because that's not OCD, but like the I want to die kind.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Um or like I'm going to die if I do this, or my whole family's going to die if I do this.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, for those of you who don't actually have OCD, stop saying you do because it's really traumatizing and it's really hard. It's so fucking terrible. So one time I out of nowhere decided that our house was gonna burn down. Um, and I would leave work like five or six times a day to drive past my house to make sure it wasn't burning down. And when I went to go see a therapist about it, because my boyfriend, now husband, was like, Hey, I think something is going on, my therapist said, So have you ever been through a house fire? And I said, No. And he said, Have you like what like what do you think is gonna happen? Like, how do you think it's gonna start? And I said, I don't know, it's really hot today. And he said, So your particular house, the sun, is going to catch on fire and no one else's house. And I said, could it could happen. So that is like the level of OCD that we're talking about here. This it's not like a it's like we need medication, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

And you know what's funny is that dad almost did burn his house down. Do you remember that? When he okay, so our dad had a brain tumor at one point, and he was like off his rocker, couldn't do anything that he normally did. Like he he was so confused about so many things, and he went to like barbecue something, and I don't even know how he did it, but he like almost blew the roof off of the patio while he was barbecuing his wife.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Was like, he literally almost burned the house down. Like the all the siding on the side of the house is melted. And I was like, Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, so anyway, we we do have a little bit of fire trauma. I'm terrified of fire happening, and I already told my husband, like, I'm gonna get the cats and my stuffed animal from when I was little, everything else I don't care about.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

And you should see her when we go camping with the kids if there's a fire. She is like, Shh, I'm pretty sure she's gonna bring a baby gate next time.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

I totally was just gonna say, I'm bringing a I'm bringing like a series of baby gates to put around the fire next time.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

To be fair, I'm sometimes a neglectful of moments. I'm like, well, I you know, I have two boys, so sometimes I have to be like, if you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough. Yeah, but you know, I keep it.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

No, but fire's irreversible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

And they just And we live in an area where forest fires like run rampant every summer. Every summer. And so every summer I tell my psych nurse like, gotta up that dosage. Yeah, the fire is about a hundred miles away.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

It's gone for me. But seriously, this year there are two that are like 25 miles away from me. Yeah, that was scary. So I have been actively making a list of like things that I need to bring if we are evacuated. And that's legitimate. That's not you, that's not your mental illness.

SPEAKER_03 5:54

No.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

That's not your mental illness. And see, this is where it becomes tricky with OCD is that you have these obsessive thoughts about things, and the the key is to say that's actually like never going to happen. So let's like recenter and stop thinking about that. But then when it's a possibility that it could happen, all you're just validated in your own obsessions.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

And so that happened to me too, because um, here's another fun fact about us this this is happening. We're you're getting to know us real well. My second baby uh had a weird-shaped head when he was born. And about a week after when the swelling went down, I kept telling everyone, like he has a weird-shaped head. And most of my intrusive obsessive thoughts are medical. And so I always think someone has some crazy disease that is incurable. And my husband is very used to being like, that's not a real thing, so chill out. But I kept telling everyone his head is a weird side, his head is a weird shape, something's wrong with his fucking head. Told his pediatrician, his pediatrician went, Maybe. Uh, but you know, like we'll we'll we'll watch it. And everyone had kind of convinced me, like, I think these are intrusive thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

And I was No, I agreed with you. Like, I don't even have kids, I don't know what I'm looking at, and I was like, Yeah, his head is a little bit weird shaped.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

But you know, other people were like, I think these are your intrusive thoughts. Like, you know, it they're it's not real. It's fine, kids have weird-shaped heads. And I was like, Okay, I finally convinced myself, like, okay, there's nothing wrong. And then one day we took him to the doctor for something else, and this new pediatrician was like, nah, he's cool, like nothing's wrong with that. And then she looked me in the eyes and she said, Why have you not gotten him a CT scan? And I said, In my head, I fucking knew it. And out loud I said, Why would you say that? And she said, because he obviously has craniosinestosis. And in my head, I went, I fucking knew it. Um, and so that was kind of traumatizing because I was like, Have all of my intrusive thoughts been real? Yeah, exactly. Uh that was really that really fucked with me. Um, so anyway, that's our rant. Stop saying you have OCD when you don't. Um like things organized and it bothers you. That's called anal retentive.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Not obsessive compulsive.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So until you feel like your little nephews are gonna die because you didn't clean the kitchen, you don't have OCD. Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Or if you are like, if I don't put these coat hangers in the right spots at the right time, I'm definitely gonna die, or someone I love is gonna die. And then you spend four hours reorganizing.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah. Or if you um throw away an ugly shower curtain that was gifted to you by your mother and then she dies. Those are things that just reinforce the behavior. Start collecting I will never give up a shower curtain, and I will never throw anything away that anybody ever gives me. It's good to laugh at these things.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

It's good to laugh at yourself. So we'll get on with it. Trigger warning, Ash. There's fire. Thank you for that. Okay, we'll go on. In November of 1992, Deborah and Tony Pickman were married in a courthouse in Acheson, Kansas. Deborah always considered herself the black sheep in her family, um, and she left home very early at 16 years old. She married three times girl. Yeah. And lived in several states before she met Tony in Kansas. Deborah and Tony met in a bar, and once they were formally introduced, they spent the night talking and were basically inseparable from the non-out. I don't trust that, but it seems to work out for them. What don't you trust? I don't do we spent the night talking. It was great. I mean we never saw we never went out without each other again.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Like, I don't I've never met a man who was that interesting, but Phil and I met in a bar, and after we got over our hatred for each other, we were inseparable.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, that was like a long period of you being haters. I guess. Which is just such the definition of your marriage. I know. It's like surface level. You're dumb, but like deep underneath, just so much love. Yeah. The more he yells at me, the more I know that he loves me. You know what I another side rant. We have an amazing dad. He's the best dad in the world. He was there a hundred percent of the time, so supportive, so amazing, superman, could do no wrong. And we still somehow have daddy issues. Like I don't know if Mark Wahlberg in fear was your first crush, sexual awakening. Oh god, yes. I I don't know where that comes from because our dad was great.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yeah, I love a bad boy. I j you know when I was um younger, I used to say I was always on the prowl for like a dark-haired dirt bag. And then you and then I found one. I married that bald ass bitch. I'm just kidding. He's not a bitch, he is bald though.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Um who? My husband.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Oh, I thought you meant me. I was like, Phil has a gorgeous head of hair.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Phil literally has a pro seeding hairline, he gets more hair the older he gets. Oh, I know. Uh, while mine is falling out in chunks. So good for him. If you guys had had a baby, he that baby would have had the most beautiful hair. And so much of it. Oh my god, it would have been gorgeous. Anyway, soon after they met, Deborah became pregnant, and after they were married, they knew they needed more space before the baby came. So Tony's brother found a small house for them, and they were super excited about like their future together, newly married, having a baby, got us cute got this cute little house, so excited. The house was two blocks from the Missouri River. Ugh. Always.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

If don't live near Rivers are no good. Don't live near water. No.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Um, the address was 508 North Second Street, and it was a three-bedroom, one and a half bath brick house, and the Pikmans were ready to start their new adventure. They were ready, they got they're they're living the dream. Deborah had always believed in the paranormal, but had never experienced anything, uh, much to her chagrin. Tony, who grew up in a very religious household, had seen a ghost as a kid and wasn't he wasn't having it. He was like, No, thank you. Um he basically refused to talk about it and wasn't willing to confess that the paranormal was a reason uh for anything. Like he was like, I don't want to I don't even I want to pretend it didn't happen. Yeah. When Deborah and Tony moved into the house, Deborah was four months pregnant with their son Taylor. The first month in the house was pretty innocuous. The only thing they could find strange was that at night Tony and Deborah would be living would be in the living room watching TV, and the light above them would glow bright and then dim as if the light was on a dimmer. They replaced bulbs and fuses, had an electrician come out, but nothing seemed wrong with any wiring. One night after it happened, Tony said, We must have a ghost.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

I mean glowing brighter, that's kind of like I've never seen a light glow brighter with that's not on a dimmer. Right. That would creep me out.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah. And he and so Tony was like joking, like, we must have a ghost. And it never happened again.

unknown 13:13

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

That ghost was like, fuck you, I'm not here. Yeah. By the end of May of '93, Deborah had started sleeping downstairs on the couch because they had a waterbed. Oh, remember mom and dad's waterbed? Yes. I cannot imagine being pregnant, trying to get the fuck out of my water. I couldn't even get off the couch, like, and sloshing around. I just can see and Chris would laugh at me. He would not help me. He would laugh at me sloshing around on that waterbed. I would have to see it at least once. Uh so she was like, fuck this, I'm sleeping on the couch. Yeah. Now though, the air conditioner had also broken down. So on this particular night, Deborah and Tony were both asleep in the living room because it was so hot upstairs. Around 3 30, Deborah woke up to someone screaming and a thumping noise coming down the stairs at the same time. And then something hit her in the body and the face. Jesus. She screamed and it woke up Tony, who also screamed because his wife is screaming. After they get their shit together, Deborah saw their two cats with their fur standing up and the cats were slinking around the room. I call that the hot cat dance. You know, they like on the side and they're like Yes, Lily used to do that when she was a kitten. I loved it. I call it hot cat dance. I love it. Um Deborah thought that maybe everything that had just happened could have been the cats. Anyone with a hefty big furred cat can a hundred percent believe this. My cat a hundred percent could make that much noise.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

What about the screaming? I've never heard your cat like like I mean she screams, but you know it's a cat.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah. That's true. Um, I wouldn't put a passer though.

SPEAKER_02 14:53

But all the like banging around, yeah, that definitely sounds like cat behavior.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yes, especially like if the fat.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And I think I am a believer that all cats should be fat. No. Yeah. Not diabetic fat, but fat, comfy fat. They went upstairs to investigate what could have been scared cats to find that it was cold as fuck upstairs, which is weird because they had just been downstairs because it was too hot to sleep up there. Oh, weird. Uh, all in all, they were like, maybe the cats saw the neighbor's cat marmalade, which is an adorable cat name. Um, and the cat saw the saw marmalade and went crazy. In June, a week before Taylor was born, Deborah bought a digital timer for their oven. She put a cake in the oven, set the timer for 12 minutes, and a minute later the time read four minutes. Seconds later it read fourteen minutes, and she was like, What the fuck? Like one of the Did you say an electronic?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Yeah, so they're really old and it wasn't like the turn ti timer. Yeah. Okay. She was like, it's just faulty apparently. Well now you just fucked up my cake and I'm mad.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I don't bake, I'm a terrible baker. Um and I Duncan Hines, maybe. I replace water with milk, and I'm basically Martha Stewart. Uh yeah. No, I don't bake. I fucking hate baking. But yeah, probably fucked her cake up. Yeah. The next day she was in the living room and heard the buzzer on the timer go off, which is weird because she hadn't said it. So she went in and stared at the timer, and a minute later it just stopped. She thought it was weird because you had to manually shut off the timer. Uh, but this kept happening day after day, and she basically gave up and like let it do its thing. This is the epitome. She's gonna be a great mom. Because sometimes you gotta go, whatever, what the fuck, do whatever you want. They once had company over and it started going off, and their guest said it was weird because no one had gone in the kitchen for hours and said that they should disconnect it, and Tony agreed. I mean, I'm definitely like, this is a faulty timer, I need to get a new one. Right. Uh so Tony just disconnected it, but after that, he never disconnected it uh because he forgot because he's in Mayon. Wait, he said he was going to, but he never did? Yeah. Got him. And it never went off unprovoked again.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

So this is like a ghost that's like, yeah, once you acknowledge me, I'm gonna like try to prove you wrong and be like, You're just crazy. There's nothing here.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yeah, just wait. After their son Taylor was born, he was reverse cycling, which means that he was sleeping more in the day than at night. Which means that Deborah was not sleeping. Up in their girly pop, it's awful. The moment they would lay him down in the bassinet at night, which was in the master room, he would cry. That just sounds like a baby to me, but her sister offered to come from New York and help with Taylor, and Deborah was like, Yes, please. When her sister was there, she offered to stay up with the baby at night. What a nice sister. Oh, I'm sorry. Karen slept with the baby downstairs, and Taylor started sleeping like four to six hour stretches. So Deborah was like, okay, let's try putting him back in our room, and on on the third night, and he began began, he began waking up every hour again. I guess my question is, was the baby sleeping on Karen downstairs? Because duh, that baby will sleep four to six hours, and it will be as soon as you have to pee that they fall asleep.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Oh yeah. Um I remember the first time I babysat your oldest. He I he finally fell asleep in my arms, and then I was like, I'm gonna pee my pants.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

And I had to figure it out, and I had to like I couldn't put him down because I knew he was gonna wake up, and so I had to like somehow go to the bathroom while holding him. I f I actually did it.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

I don't really know how I did it, but it's amazing what you can do one-handed when you really, really don't want someone to wake up.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

When you really have to, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Um, and for the record, my first never slept. He just never, he never, I don't think he slept until he was three.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

I was a master at getting him to take naps, though.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

I think I was too, too anxious.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

And I was like, chill. I was like, here's your poppy, let's put you in there. And I would like rub his little nose really softly and put on sleepy time music and dim the lights and put a little blanket on him, make him all comfy cozy. He loved it, and he would just fall asleep.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

He probably felt your energy like Aunt Ashley doesn't give a fuck if I fell asleep, so I'll just do whatever. Mom, however, really wants me to. And if you know anything about my first son, if you really want him to do something, he will give you the middle finger. Uh my therapist told me his opposition oppositional defiance disorder. Oh, I said, Yeah, his dad does too. Believe that 100%. Anyway, the day before Karen was about to go back to New York, Deborah put a bunch of different stuffed animals around the nursery, some just like inside the door, on the shelf above the crib, one in the crib, across the room on the floor. Uh, and they went to Tony's parents' house for a gathering. Tony had a brother named Larry and his wife Jeannie. And Jeannie had gone to Deborah and Tony's house before going to their in-laws to drop off a high chair. When Jeannie showed up to get to the get-together, she seemed shaken and kept apologizing for going in their house without them home. And Deborah was like, It's fine, girl, like, don't worry about it. But Jeannie seemed super weird. Deborah, Tony, and Karen got back home around 10 p.m. And Tony went upstairs. And when he came back down, he asked why Deborah arranged the stuffed animals like that in the nursery. And Deborah was like, What do you mean? And went upstairs to check it out. All the stuffed animals were in a circle in the middle of the room with their backs to each other. Was there a pentagram in the middle? No. They assumed it was Jeannie playing a trick on them because she had been there without them earlier. Deborah called Jeannie and asked if something seemed off in the house when she was there, like you know, stuffed animals like having a backwards tea party. And Jeannie said no. And Deborah asked if she saw the stuffed animals, and Jeannie said no, but the house gave her an eerie feeling and felt like she had to run out of there. So I would say something felt off, Jeannie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

If you had to run out of there.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yeah. I definitely Jeannie said, Do you think you have a ghost? Well, f it would be more fucking comforting than thinking someone broke into my house and did some freaky shit with my kids' stuffed animals. And nothing else, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

I think I feel I I definitely feel feel like I would be more comfortable with a ghost doing that.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Fuck yeah. They figured George Tony's other brother was playing a prank on them, so they put the animals back, turned off the light, went downstairs. When Tony got to the living room, Karen asked, I thought you turned off the nursery light, and Tony said I did, and Karen said, Well, it's back on. So they stared at each other for a while.

SPEAKER_02 21:39

No, I totally would have been like, Ia didn't turn it off, dipshit.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Yeah. So they all go back upstairs and peer into the room, and all the animals are back into their fucked up tea party stance. And so they put 'em back, turned off the light.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

Oh my god, I would just leave them the way that they are.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

I mean, obviously someone is doing something. Like, what?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I'm not gonna do this every day. That's just not happening. I'm not Rearranging these animals every single fucking day. Like I ain't got time for this shit.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

So for the rest of the night they stuck close together for the They stuck close together. Partly to see if one of them was like playing a trick on them. Uh but around 10.50, Deborah went upstairs to use the bathroom, which I'm not really sure why, because there was a half bath downstairs, but whatever. Tony and Karen stood at the bottom of the stairs to watch her and stand guard, but Deborah couldn't help but look in the nursery. And the goddamn bear was on the floor again.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Just the one?

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Just one bear was on the floor again. Okay. Get up, bear. I say that because my husband and I like make fun of people like when bears are around. Like, go away, bear! Like people like yell at bears, like they're like gonna listen. Yeah. Like, get up, bear.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Why would you tell a bear to get up? I would be like, stay there, bear. I don't well, it's not supposed to be on the fucking floor. Okay. Are we talking about real bears or stuffed animal bears? Both.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Okay. They looked for anything to help explain what happened, like open doors, string magnets, but they couldn't find any earthly explanation for the fucked up teddy bears picnic that was happening in the nursery. They had to admit that they were dealing with something paranormal at this point, and Karen said maybe it was a maternal spirit trying to entertain the baby. Karen thought, maybe it was a child spirit. I don't know, but let's just leave it alone. The next day they were like, okay, we need an objective opinion. So they called Tony br Tony's brother Larry and told him what happened. They asked him to come over and he was like, What now? Which is how a sibling should react to such an annoying request. He ended up coming over early that afternoon because he's a good brother. If you had called me when you lived on Wallace, I would have said, Bitch figure the fucking.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

I know, I know you would have. I absolutely know that. I don't think I even like remember you being inside my house uh at all when I lived there. I didn't live in town, so that would be fun. I do remember like the one time that we hung out, we hung out on the the tailgate of my Jimmy outside.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Well, fucked up shit was happening. So he starts asking him questions like was it the wind? Was it the cats? Was one of them playing a trick? They turned off the light in a nursery and waited to see if the bear would end up on the floor again, but nothing happened. Larry suggested they set the animals up as they originally found them the night before, so they put them in a circle back towards each other. Yes. Again, nothing. Deborah stood in the nursery and said, It's okay, you can play now, and left to join everyone downstairs. Okay, lady. Right. It gets worse. Actually, it gets so much worse. While they were waiting to check again, Tony noticed that a bing bag bear that sat next to the TV and usually faced the living room was now facing the wall. Larry asked if anyone had moved it, and they all said no. Karen said that before they went upstairs the last time, she saw the bear was facing the living room. Larry could tell they were scared, so he said he would talk to his boss who knew a medium. Deborah, Tony, and Karen had decided that they and Taylor were all gonna sleep in the master bedroom. Sister sleepover.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Chris would never would Phil.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Get downstairs with the ghost, Ash!

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I just feel, I feel like, would be like, Belone could sleep on the couch.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Well, and also your snoring would keep any ghost away, so it's fine. Uh-huh. That was not a ghost in the background. That was Ashley's big ass cat. Big ass. She's seven pounds. Oh, I thought it was the other one. Deborah was in the bedroom waiting for Tony and Karen to get the VCR and tapes and TV from the living room, because it's a sleepover. They both looked at the beanbag bear and it was facing the living room now. As Tony was carrying the TV, Karen was in front of him with the VCR and tapes, and Tony suddenly saw something out of the corner of his eye, and when he turned, the bear was facing the wall.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Okay, what is the deal with like having the the backs of the stuffed animals to everyone? We don't ever find out. I didn't think so. I didn't think the ghost was gonna come through and be like, oh, I do this because of this reason. Well sometimes they do.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Maybe I have a really good communicator. Earlier in the night, Tony called his mom because who else would you call? I mean, not us, because our mom's dead, but uh his mom got curious and found the previous tenant of the house and asked if the tenant had witnessed anything peculiar while living there. The previous tenant said that she would often smell foul odors that didn't appear to have a cause, and that her daughter would often play with an imaginary friend named Sally in the walk-in closet. She also said that she would fight with her kids about putting toys away when they were done playing with them, but the kids always insisted that they never played with those toys. All this behavior the tenant talked about seemed to stop immediately after they moved out of this house. So after this call, Larry called to say that his boss spoke to the medium, Barbara. Barbara said said she sensed a little girl ghost who liked the house and was protecting a baby. Barbara felt that the spirit was playing with the stuffed animals and that the baby would more than likely see her. Barbara asked Larry's boss, has the baby been waking up a lot at night? No. The baby sleeps through the night. It's a baby. Of course, it fucking wakes up a lot at night. That doesn't prove you're talking with ghosts, it proves that you have been around a human baby for an hour. Like, what the fuck? Annie didn't know the answer. Annie was the like boss of Tony. Tony's boss. Yeah. Okay. But when Deborah heard this, she was convinced that Barb was legit, which is a terrible measurement of legitimacy. This next part is sad. Deborah was paranoid that people would think that she was a bad mom because she couldn't tell anyone about the sleep troubles that they had with the baby, um, with the exception of her sister. Like she thought that people would like judge her for not knowing how to take care of her baby. Oh, that's so sad. Um, I have been there, except I complained loudly to everyone. Yes, you did. I was like, I don't give a fuck if you think I'm a bad mom. This fucking baby won't sleep. Uh Barbara told Annie to tell Larry, to tell Deborah and Tony. God damn, to tell the girl she can stay, but she has to follow the rules. Before hanging up. Oh my god. I know. Before hanging up, Barbara said she was getting a name, Sally. That night, Deborah and Tony were going to bed, and Tony stood in the hallway motionless. He pointed to a picture on the wall of the two of them, and it was upside down. What the fuck? Tony asked Deborah what she thought it meant, and she said, Maybe she likes us. I don't think so. I don't think that's what that means. No. The next day, Georgie boy came over to see the baby and talk about the ghost. Deborah had been taking pictures of Taylor that day and the camera was sitting on the table. Tony had been telling George about the beanbag bear and took the camera from the table and took a picture of the bear. At the same time, George jumped up and screamed, YOW! What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

It's from Ghostbusters 2.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I know it's from Ghostbusters 2. He said, Holy shit, that bear just moved. And they were all freaked out and decided to stay at Tony's mom's house for the night. Okay, wait. That's the thing that gets you to leave the house for the night? Like Well, he saw the bear move.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

I mean, uh okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Ashley's like, come stay at the wall's house, bitch. Yeah, right? Jesus. George waited outside while Deborah and Tony got things together for the baby, which reminds me of the time when I was like 12 and I thought someone broke into our house and was upstairs, and your ex-boyfriend made your friend Aaliyah go up and check it out. I remember that. It was actually a pansy ass bitch.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

It was actually just the dog hitting the side of the house while she scratched her mouth. No, she was upstairs. That she was upstairs.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

She like got locked in mom and dad's. She was outside and she was itching her back on the ground and throwing her paws against the house. I am almost positive she was upstairs. That's not what it was, but whatever. Taylor was in the car seat on the couch crying with Tony on the left of him and Deborah on the right. Tony was trying to settle Taylor when suddenly he jumped up and yelled, ow, while pawing at his back. Even though she didn't say anything, Deborah at the same time felt cold electricity move through her body. Tony figured it was a bug that bit him and they went to his parents for the night, like fuck it, whatever. So she didn't say anything about the cold vibe? No, because they were like rushing, right? Like they were really freaked out and they were like, just get the shit and get the fuck out of here. And George was no fucking help. Um, however, when they got there, Deborah pulled up Tony's shirt to see three bloody scratch marks up the middle of his back. At this point, Deborah was like, Yeah, we need help. She calls old Barb, who says that Sally is in the house because she likes the baby and is quote unquote like an angel protecting him. She said that she's moving things around because she wants to be noticed, which makes sense why when they said it was a ghost messing with the lights, they stopped glowing. And when they mentioned getting a new timer for the oven, it stopped going off. Because it was as if they were noticing her. And so she was like, Cool, thanks for the yeah. Barbara again told Deborah to tell Sally that she could only stay if she followed the rules. She also said that she got good energy from Sally and that she wouldn't hurt anyone. Deborah was like, Yeah, except she did. Right. And Barbara said Sally probably thought Tony was going to hurt the baby, and said, and Barbara said, That makes me so mad. Which is so Midwestern of her. Yeah, I don't think it was Sally. Okay. I'm so interested in what you have to say at the end here. Okay. She told Deborah to call Sally into a room and establish boundaries about the baby, and if she interfered again, she would be punished. And Deborah was like, How the fuck do you punish a ghost child? And Barbara was literally like, send her to her room. To the baby's room? Send Sally, yeah, to the baby's room. I didn't think about that. Yes, I'm just send her to the room.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Oh my god, please go to your room where my defenseless baby is.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Also, my kid is not invisible, and that shit doesn't work, so go back with that. She also told Deborah that if she wanted to get rid of Sally for good, Barbara would help her, but Deborah felt bad and said no.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

Deborah, you're just making things worse for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Sally, you ain't gotta go home, but you gotta get the hell out of here. You know what I mean? To be clear at this point, Deborah was fully accepting that a ghost was in their house, but was skeptical skeptical of Barbara.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

I mean, I would definitely be skeptical of Barbara if she was like, send the ghost to her room where your baby is.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Give her rules. Regardless, Deborah called Sally into the living room and laid down the rules. She felt stupid talking to dead air, but her and Tony started noticing a few weird things. One of the strings on the ceiling fan would swing in a circle, stop, and then begin swinging again. Each time the ball on the chain would move, the baby who was asleep in his car seat would wake up, and when it stopped, he would go back to sleep.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Oh, that's weird.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

So Deborah thought that this was Sally telling her that she could wake the baby if she wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

Oh, that sounds like a threat. Immediate banishment.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah. I don't give a fuck if it's mom coming back from the dead. Don't you dare fucking wake up that baby.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

That sounds like a threat. Like, don't fuck with me or I will keep your baby awake.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah. I would get the fuck out and take the baby with you. I'm just kidding. Just then Barbara called back. She called the house and said she wanted to visit. Deborah thought that Barb just wanted to see if she was correct in what she was reading and didn't really want to help them, but she agreed because she didn't really have any other choice. Deborah told Sally that Barbara was coming and she'd be able to see here, see her and like hear her. Deborah offered Sally some crayons and paper, told her she loved her. Oh my god. And they were happy she was part of the family.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

I am never seen a scary movie. I honestly, this was like the height of scary movies. So don't do that. I don't know what I don't don't do that. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only, but just don't fucking do that. Meanwhile, Deborah went to the library to do some research on the history of the house, and this is what she found. Kate Finney purchased the land in 1872, and her son Charles built the house in 1905. The Finnies were well known and owned a lot of land in the area. One of Kate's grandsons lived in the house and eventually became a doctor and used the house as his office. The lore that came from this was a story that follows the house and all of the investigations you look in. The story goes that a woman brought her young daughter to the house after hours, pounding on the door, begging for help. The doctor decided to help her, diagnosed her daughter with appendicitis, and immediately prepped her for surgery. In his haste to get it corrected, he started the surgery without anesthesia. The girl was screaming and thrashing in pain and did not survive the surgery. Oh my god. The little girl's name was supposedly Sally. But historical records in this area and in this time frame are really sparse, and most are handwritten and were destroyed by water because of it's it again, the house there's a giant river going through the town, so there are a lot of floods. So no one's ever been able to confirm this story. This is just basically like the lore of where Sally came from.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Deborah never found any evidence of any dude was an actual doctor that practiced in his house. Yes. Okay. So chances are people may have even if Sally didn't, if uh people may have died under his care in his home. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Um Deborah never found any evidence of any little girl dying in the house. She started to look for young girls between the ages of four and seventeen who died between the years of 1800 and 1900. She narrowed it down to three Sally's Sally Foster, who died in 1865, Sally White, who died in 1891, and Sally Hall, who died in 1905. The only connection they could find was that the Hall family was a black family who lived down the street from the Finnies, and they theorized that the Hall family could put potentially worked for the Finnies. Okay and that their daughter somehow died in their house. I don't whatever. There's a lot of haunted lore around Acheson, Kansas itself. Some say the town was built on quartz and limestone and has a long history of tragic deaths. Acheson was actually one of the first settlements in the Kansas territory after the Louisiana Purchase, and some mediums have said that the town was at one point a battlefield during the Civil War, but there's actually no historical record of that. Acheson was submerged in pro-slavery policies, but the neighboring state of Missouri was a constant threat of invasion, so three militia companies were organized in the town. So there's just like a lot of harsh vibes happening. When the gold rush started, settlers went through Acheson on their way to California, and this resulted in sixteen hundred wagons a day. Jesus, which is so much energy like moving through a town with a river.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Yeah. Sixteen hundred a day. Yeah. I I I'm so stupid. I would have never thought there would have ever been even sixteen hundred at all. Let alone a day. Well, yeah, it was the gold rush, so I mean I I g yeah, I'm not a mystery buff by any means.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Neither am I, but sixteen hundred a day is that's cuckoo bananas. Uh, because of the town's early founding and its rich industrial history, Atchison is said to be the most haunted city in Kansas. But all in all, Deborah didn't find shit. On July 29th, Barbara came to visit with Janelle's boyfriend, Kifa. Deborah kept talking to Sally, saying she was happy when she made her presence known. This gives me fucking anxiety. Before Barbara got there, George came over to do laundry, which reminds me of like Jackie from Mozanne. Oh yeah. He walked past the bathroom and noticed the two votive candles above the toilet were lit. He asked if Deborah and Tony had lit them, and they both said no. Deborah scolded Sally for playing with fire and admitted her antics were cute.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Oh no. Lighting f lighting candles is not cute.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Bitch, get the fuck out of my house and take these candles with you.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I would have told her to leave several times before this, but that definitely, because of my fear of fire, would have said, get out now.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Some of Tony's friends stopped by for Barbara's visit, and Deborah and Tony had borrowed a video camera and a Polaroid camera to document the whole ordeal. They wanted to test the theory that Sally was obsessed with Taylor, so they took a bunch of pictures, Taylor with his parents, Taylor alone, Taylor with Tony's friends, random objects, and every picture of Taylor, a white blur appeared. This blur was most present in pictures with Taylor and his parents. After being two hours late, Barbara finally arrived with her sister. She wandered the downstairs and finally sat on the couch. After a few minutes, she declared that before Sally died, she had a toothache and pain in the palm of her hand. She turned to Deborah and said, Quote, You do a lot of things that bug her. Oh, I'm so sorry. Sally, you don't live here. Oh my god. I'm not your friend, bitch. Yeah. Um Sally said Deborah was bossy. And Barbassed if Deborah talked about the rules of Sally. Deborah confirmed because, bitch, you told me to. How many rules did she give this ghost? I don't know, but like not lighting things on fire isn't hard to remember.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Is this the kind of child that you have to give step-by-step instructions to like before you get in the bathtub, take off your clothes before you get out before you put your clothes back on, dry yourself off? Is she like you ha is there a rule for everything because she's just gonna do everything that you didn't specify?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

She is my oldest son, yes. Sally also told Barb that she was seven years old. She couldn't tell if Sally was waking the baby to play with him or save him from SIDS. Uh which I feel like is I don't I don't know. Like every night she thinks that he's gonna do it. Yeah. She said if Sally was trying to play with Taylor, she might stop if she had more toys to play with. Deborah told Sally she could play with Taylor, but she had to be careful. What the fuck? The way I would exercise the fuck out of this little girl if she came near my fucking kids. Like she told Sally that she could play with the baby. Yeah, but she had to be careful. I wouldn't let a seven-year-old real person play with my kid without being supervised. Let alone a fucking invisible one. Barbara said Sally didn't like men and that she was probably attacking Tony because he was a man. She thought Sally may have been abused, which is sad. Barb said Sally was comfy cozy there and probably wouldn't leave.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Okay, well, I'm glad that you're comfy cozy here. I'm glad that I've made a nice environment for you, but you're not playing with my kid.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

And get the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

And you're not lighting fires. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

She told them that if and when they moved to invite Sally with them.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Oh fuck no.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

What is this woman saying? She confirmed You know what I would say?

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Barb, why don't you take her?

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Why don't you go ahead and take her? You guys seem to be like You guys can talk to each other.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

You both are lonely, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Yeah. She confirmed Sally could light fires and to send her to her room if she does.

SPEAKER_02 41:43

Yeah, Barbara.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

Get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Like Barbara, how the fuck am I supposed to tell if she went in her room and is staying in her room?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Also, if my kid tried to light a fire in her house, I wouldn't be like, go to your room. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

What in the fuck were you thinking? Barbara is a flake, and I do not believe that she has any psychic ability whatsoever. I think she's making all this shit up, and I don't know why she's giving bad information and bad direction.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Like if you had to have a license to be a medium, I would I would take her license away so quickly. After Barbara's visit, Deborah really went all in. She got Sally a doll to play with from the neighbor and asked Sally if she wanted to help her clean the doll and put new clothes on her. She regularly talked Oh, this woman's losing her mind. She regularly talked to Sally and included her in everything they did in the house. Oh my god. One day in August of 1993, Tony's mom came to the house to help wallpaper a room. I fucking love this. When his mom got there, she took the baby and he quickly fell asleep because it's grandma. She placed him in his bassinet in the living room and went in the other room to start wallpapering. Ten minutes later she checked on Taylor and he was peacefully sleeping, so she stepped back in the kitchen. As soon as she left, Taylor let out a piercing cry as if he was in pain. Grandma ran over, picked him up, told Sally if she hurt the baby again she would spank her butt. If you don't threaten to spank children that aren't yours, are you really even a grandma?

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Oh my gosh. I mean, like I could see our grandma threatening a ghost like that. But like, I don't think Sally believes you.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

I know, but I just love that grandma's like court capital punishment for everyone. Tony took Taylor and sued them on the couch. But suddenly Tony saw the glass globe from their oil lamp levitate three feet in the air, travel toward him and the baby, and he yelled out Deborah's name, and as soon as he did, the globe fell to the floor.

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

Yeah. The oil lamp has fire in it, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Obviously. Like you guys are just.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Asking for. Over the next few weeks, Sally had thrown the beanbag bear at George while he was sleeping, harassed their kitten so he couldn't eat. Oh fuck no. Deborah did fix this. Made a cray move in the nursery, pushed Taylor in his baby swing, used static on the TV to communicate her wants and needs, lit more candles, and slept in bed with Deborah. And how does Deborah know that? She said she felt like a little person could crawl in bed and lay down next to her.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

Okay, so this girl has made herself at home because of you guys. Yes. Like this is just this is the perfect storm. Oh, for sure. It's the perfect storm of stupidity. Like this could have been nipped in the bud a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

One night Tony mentioned that Sally liked to nibble on his toes. Oh my god, what the fuck? These people are fucking weird. Ashley, Deborah thought it was cute. What the fuck? I don't give a fuck who you are. Keep your dirty ass mouth away from my husband's toes. Uh yeah. Don't do that. A few minutes later, Deborah was in the shower when she heard Tony yell. He came upstairs and said, She bit me. Well. And there was a full deep bite mark on his thigh.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Deborah laughed. Deborah, your adopted child here is demonic.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

The house would be on fire from how fast I went to the courthouse and filed divorce papers if Chris laughed at a fucking demon biting me. Phil would totally laugh. I would be in prison. I wouldn't have to worry about this fucking little demon girl because I'd be in prison for murdering my husband. Phil would laugh for sure. On Halloween a few days later, Tony went in the kitchen to get smort juice. He poured it into the glass, put the carton away, turned around, and saw a little girl with blue eyes, chestnut hair, and quote, in her Sunday best. Oh, he actually saw her? Yes. And he thinks this is Sally. Yes. He dropped the glass he was holding and looked down. And when he looked back up, she was gone. When he told Deborah he saw Sally, he said, Barbara was right. She's cute as hell.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

I've never heard a ghost or its antics described as cute ever.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

She's lighting fires. Yeah. She's biting people. She's nibbling toes. This is not, this is this is not normal ghost behavior.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

I just have a feeling that Taylor grew up to be like the most spoiled, rotten asshole child on the planet.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

If they're letting well, let's not say that Taylor's probably still alive.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Taylor, if that's not true, I'm sorry. I mean, these people just everything is so cute and everything is just okay and everything's kosher. Like, come on, no.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

I mean, no, I get what if this was like a live child and they bit my husband so hard they left a mark, I would be like, What the fuck is wrong with you? For sure. Uh, but because she looked so young and innocent, Deborah brought up that it seemed impossible it was her causing the trouble. So Deborah is now kind of starting to be like, I think there might be two ghosts here. One day shortly after Thanksgiving, the infamous Bingbag Bear caught fire. On its own. Yes. Just spontaneous combustion. Yes. Okay. And Deborah called Barbara to ask if they were still sick. My god, why did they keep calling me? I don't know. I can't. Barbara said Sally was still happy. She was just jealous of the Thanksgiving guests that had been there. Deborah asked if there were any other spirits in the house, and she said if there were, Sally were the dominant one and wouldn't let anything happen to them. But Deborah couldn't help but think that Barbara was just trying to comfort her. Uh I don't know why, because Barbara has done nothing but upset everything. Yeah. December of ninety three, the house had been quiet for a while, and Deborah and Tony were expecting forty-five people over for Christmas. Good God. Deborah was worried Sally was lying low in anticipation of so many people to have the chance to give her attention. The day had come for everyone to come over, and a relative had come dressed as Santa for all the kids, but Deborah was upset because she had forgotten to get Sally a gift. I can't Girl, Christmas is stressful enough without having an invisible child to think of. Also, if I told Chris I had to get the house ghost a Christmas present, he would be like, Well, what's next? You're gonna take a life insurance policy out on the gate?

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Like, I the I Yeah. This isn't the first ghost story I've heard of somebody getting a gift for the ghost. Like I I have heard of this before, but it was more of a like a goodbye gift. Like this woman was leaving the house, and this supposedly there were three young spirits that were like they just wanted to play, and they um she like got them gifts when before she left, but like spooked podcast. Yeah, it's so good. Um but including her in your family's like Christmas holiday and Thanksgiving and like actually what if she got them like buy her little outfits?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

It somehow gets worse. I say that this was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

These people were on LSD.

SPEAKER_01 49:26

I mean, it was the 90s. I say this, but maybe Deborah was right because later in the night Tony went upstairs to get some people's jackets when the smoke alarm went off, and on the fifth stair, a doll was on fire. Jesus. Tony grabbed the doll and threw it in the bathroom sink and he burned his arms in the process. No one but George saw the doll, and Tony hid his injuries, so no one like asked questions. The last guest to leave was old Aunt Louise, who told them just out of nowhere, Sally probably felt left out because she didn't get anything from Santa.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Dude, it's always the crazy aunt that's just like, oh, by the way, yeah, Sally.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

And she hopes that yes, that's yeah. Also, am I supposed to tell my random relative to make sure to bring a ghost gift?

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Right. So, okay, you have 45 people coming and assuming they've all bought a gift for Taylor. And so are you gonna tell them all that they need to all buy a gift for Sally also? And what do you buy a seven-year-old ghost?

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah, that's a good question. Deborah told Sally that instead of lighting the house on fire, Sally was allowed to light the oil lamp to get their attention.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Oh, the most dangerous flammable thing in the house. She can play with that.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

The night that Santa made an appearance at the house, Taylor had been asleep for the night, so Aunt Louise said that she would come back with Santa so Taylor could see him. Who cares? I know. Uh a couple of days later, they showed up again and the oil lamp started to billow black smoke when Santa walked in. See, that's not a good idea. No. Deborah took that to mean that Sally was excited.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

No, Sally is not happy.

SPEAKER_01 51:05

I have a feeling that the first three marriages that Deborah was in, she got gaslit a lot.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Great to know the circumstances of these divorces.

SPEAKER_01 51:16

Yeah. They took Christmas pictures with Santa Taylor and Sally. Well, yeah, obviously. On Christmas Day, Deborah was unwrapping the presents she got Sally because you know Sally can't. She's yeah. Tony was taking pictures of Deborah. And Sally. Opening no, just Deborah. Opening presents for the ghost. God god. Because Sally's invisible. When the pictures were developed, Deborah saw two distinct energies in the photos. A grey mass and what looked like a ball of lights. This confirmed to them that there was indeed one more than one spirit in the house. That spirit made itself known on January 5th, 1994, when Deborah and Tony were in bed. Oh I knew it. Tony couldn't sleep because of what he thought were cats running up and down the stairs. He went to the top of the staircase and heard the even thumps the stair on the stairs, but saw nothing. The thumps approached him, went past him, and went down the hall. Tony ran back into the room and tried to wake up Deborah, but she was a heavy sleeper. He said he heard the footsteps in the room with them and again tried to wake up Deborah. He told her in the morning that he had a dream that night, that something had tried to pull him out of bed by his wrists. He told her whatever it was, he told whatever it was to let him go, but the top half of his body was out of bed, and when he pushed himself back into bed, he felt like he was awake. Deborah looked at Tony's wrists and saw that they were so red that they looked burned. When she looked closer, she could see finger imprints as if someone had grabbed him and they were small, like a child's hands. Oh my god. A couple of weeks later, a few friends and George came over to visit. During this visit, the microwave timer went off several times with no one in the kitchen. Pictures were grabbed out of friends' hands. Deborah's little decorative spoons were turned backwards. George's wool jersey had a fresh scorch mark on it, and a pacifier disappeared out of someone's lap just to reappear moments later. Time for her to go to her boom. Yeah. Another night, Deborah and Tony suddenly lost the TV remote. They searched the entire house for it, but spite but despite just having it, they couldn't find it. After some time, Tony fell asleep on the couch and Deborah went to take a bath. When she came back down thirty minutes later, the remote was on Tony's lap. Deborah asked where he found the remote, and Tony said, You found it. After a back and forth, Tony said, Deborah, I felt you touch my shoulder and say, Tony, here's your remote. But Deborah swore she had not been downstairs since the remote appeared on his own. So like it's mimicking people now. Yes. It gets creepier. Two days later, Tony swore Deborah walked past the bathroom he was in, but seconds later he found her in their bedroom. He knew it wasn't Deborah that walked past him because the woman had her hair in a bun and was wearing long sleeves. And when he found Deborah, her hair was down and wet and was in and she was in her underwear sitting on her vanity. Apparently the second ghost was a woman, and she had taken a liking to old Anthony. So I wonder if she's the one that bit his thigh. Yeah, yeah. One night George brought two guys from work over to do a makeshift seance, which I also don't recommend. The two guys, Chris and John, Deborah, Tony, and George were all sitting on the dining room table. They didn't invite Deborah? No, I'm saying like the two guys, Chris and John. Yeah. And then Deborah, Tony, and George. Oh, Deborah is there. Oh, we're all sitting on the dining room table. Oh, I meant Barbara. No.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

They didn't invite Barbara. Barbara's not invited. This is like up Barbara's alley, so I'm surprised. True.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

She said, let's get a fucking, let's draw a pentagram and get a fucking Ouija board out here. They asked the normal questions like, if someone is here, show us type shit. Um at one point Tony said there was something around his head and he kept swatting the air, but 20 minutes passed and nothing happened. Suddenly Deborah looks at Chris, who is looking at Tony, with a scared look on his face. Deborah turned to look at Tony and saw blood was dripping down his forehead, coming from two deep scratches in his hairline. They kept asking who did it, but the spirits would not show them anything. Deborah Chris and John smelled the woman's perfume, and Deborah recognized the smell as one of her perfumes. Yeah. And actually on Barbara's home visit, she mentioned this specific perfume and assumed Sally liked it. Around 1 a.m., Chris and John were getting up to leave, and Deborah followed them into the living room. She turned to the dining room the dining table, and George and Tony were under the table looking for something. She asked what they were looking for, and they said they saw something with a light fly in an arc and go under the table table. Deborah turned on the lights and they found one of Taylor's pacifiers. The light they saw was the metal thermometer in the pacifier that would take the baby's temperature. Oh, that's I've never heard of that. I haven't either, and I'm guessing they don't use them anymore because of mercury. The pacifier had been on top of the stereo right before the guests arrived. The end of the plastic pacifier was melted and smelled like burned plastic and was still warm. Oh god. So by this point, they knew they needed hard proof that wild shit was happening, and next time they would be prepared. Deborah mailed Barbara a letter with the pictures from Christmas with the gray mass and the lights. Barbara called Deborah and confirmed there was a woman spirit in the house who Barbara believed was Sally's mom.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Well, why the fuck wouldn't she have said something before? Because she's making this shit up off the top of her fucking head. Yeah. Just fucking Barbara. Barbara, you've been discredited.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Yes. Well, if I if I was this inaccurate at my job, I would for sure be put on like a performance. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 56:56

I couldn't imagine. I would not have a job if I was this inaccurate. I work for the government, so they ain't gonna fire me.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

During Taylor's first birthday party, there were around 40 people in and out of the house, including a shit ton of children. My worst nightmare. I fucking hate birthday parties. All my life, I would rather have a ghost in my house than any children besides my own. Tony had recorded the party randomly throughout the day. Ten years after this party, they gave the tape to an an um analyst who had recovered a few EVPs. Two kids' voices clearly saying rabbit's foot and that's all she gets can be heard while Taylor's opening his presents. Oh, that's creepy. Yeah. A couple days after Taylor's birthday, Tony went upstairs to the nursery to check on Taylor while he was sleeping. He tucked his blanket around him when suddenly the blanket was ripped away from Taylor and thrown across the crib twice. Okay, once would have been enough for me. Never. One night Tony was sleeping in their room and he yelled out Deborah's name multiple times but wouldn't answer her when she called back to him. She made her way up to the room and saw him sprawl out in the bed looking terrified. He said, quote, It started out as specks of dust against the light from the window, and I thought it was dust from the vent in the wall near the end of the bed. That is, until I realized it had not been cool enough in the room for the heater to come on. I felt the waterbed mattress start to gently roll and wave. Within a few seconds it became violent, as if someone was standing on the bed and jumping up and down. Soon the motion was causing the pillows near my head to bounce several inches into the air, and my body began to flop uncontrollably. The formation of dust particles near the foot of the bed began to get darker and denser. I think I was mesmerized by this formation, and before I realized it had taken the shape of a woman's upper torso. Her arms folded in front of her and across her abdomen. He said that she was dressed in all black and was suddenly right in front of him. The bedroom door shut itself and the drawers of the nightstand nightstand started opening and closing. As the woman's hands started to stretch out toward him, he noticed she was wearing a lace glove and there was a black bird on her hand. The woman said, I'm gonna, but he couldn't make out anything after that. He was finally able to call out for Deborah and he was out of bed but didn't know how he got there. It freaked him the fuck out. Like Tony at this point is like, I'm fucking done.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Well yeah, I mean, I definitely would have like gotten off that bed the second it started rolling like the water. Can you though? I mean it's a big water bed. Yeah, yeah. Just humiliate yourself trying to get out of it and feel this ghost.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

Yeah. I also find it interesting that Tony's the one seeing the full body apparitions. Yeah. And Deborah's also wondering why Tony's the one seeing them and not her. They started to hear frequent loud moaning in the hallway and their room. Taylor had stopped sleeping in his bed at night and became afraid of his toys. This is when Barbara called and told Deborah that two TV shows wanted to come investigate the house. Tony was apprehensive, but eventually agreed to the smaller of the two shows called Sightings.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

So, oh okay, I remember Sightings. That was a great show. So Barbara's out there just telling everybody their business.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Yeah, putting them on blast. Okay. Putting them on Front Street.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

Sightings was a legit show. I loved that show. You probably don't remember it. I don't remember it because I'm not old.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Okay. I'm just kidding. When the crew arrived, they set up their equipment and started to interview Deborah. Uh once they stopped for a break, Tony went up to Deborah and said, Deb, she doesn't like all these people here. And he showed her and the cameraman three six-inch scratch marks on his forearm. The cameraman was baffled because he was in the same room the whole time, and the arm with the scratches on it was the same arm Tony was using to hold the baby. Oh there was no way he could have done it himself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:44

Because that was my first thought, was like, oh, he could have easily done that himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

Yeah. If this wasn't enough evidence for the crew, Tony's interview was. During his interview, Tony kept losing track of what he was saying until he finally said, She's here. I can feel the cold air around my stomach. He lifted his shirt and there were three scratches down his chest. As the camera shot this, Welts began to appear on camera. Jesus. There was no way Tony could have scratched himself without the entire crew seeing it. And so this is like one of the reasons that this is the most believable paranormal story because they literally like filmed scratch marks forming on his chest. Yeah. That go from him talking to him lifting up his shirt and they're forming on his chest. I mean, like, I could be crazy, but I feel like I vaguely remember this episode. You might have because it was like one of the most famous episodes. Yeah. They do like four episodes on them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Yeah, there's like a bunch there's a bunch of stories in one episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

After the show aired, Deborah and Tony were distraught about their choice to go public because the guys at Tony's work were being fucking dicks.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

Um they'll come play and do a seance, but now they're gonna be assholes about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yeah. Some guy the some guys at his work refused to work with him. Someone wrote Devil Boy in his car in the dust, and they received taunting phone calls all the time. This is why you don't tell everybody your ghost story. Yeah. Barbara called to check in on them after the airing, and Deborah asked about the scratches. Deborah nor Tony thought Sally was responsible them, responsible for them since Tony saw Sally in the kitchen and realized how young she was. Barbara confirmed it was in fact not Sally, but a woman spirit who had come into the house with a guest after they moved in and decided to stay. Okay, so there's the woman, a guest, and Sally.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:35

And Sally's mom, apparently. Well, I thought the woman was Sally's mom. Or is Sally's mom's separate.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

First, Barbara was like Yeah, this is Sally's spirit. Is another one, it's Sally's mom. And now she's saying there is another woman's spirit who had come into the house with like a living guest.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:54

And decided to stay. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Um so they're all just like, look at this. This is a hangout. I'm gonna stay. Yeah. I'm gonna stay around for a while. Well, they treat him well. So I wonder if I'll get presents too.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

Yeah, can we put on Beetlejuice? Can we watch that movie? Sally said she didn't like the woman um and that she was mean. Because of their crazy experience from the first time, the crew of Sidings wanted to come back a second time. Tony wasn't super thrilled, but went along with it because he loves his wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

That's a man. Okay, so you're getting all kinds of shit for having done the show in the first place, and you decide to do it again. These people, seriously, everything they're doing, they're just gluttons for punishment.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

In her book, Deborah really goes into detail about how Tony was like, fuck no. But she like convinced him because she needed to know more, and like she was so obsessed with the paranormal. Um, and he's just a nice husband who wanted to like make his wife happy. This time with the original crew was the host of the show, Tim White. Tim was excited because he was respectively skeptical and assumed the mystery of the house would be solved while they were there. Deborah was cool with this because, like I said, he was respectful and not a total dick about it. Unlike another investigator who joined later whose name was Al Rober, it was very apparent that Al didn't have a fun bone in his body and was like, shit's fake. Oh, okay. He debunked, quote unquote, all these weird incidences. But Deborah was getting frustrated because they had already thought about all of those explanations and tried to prove themselves right multiple times. Al was kind of just a dick about it, to be honest. Like, I a hundred percent believe in being skeptical, even as a believer in the paranormal. I have a healthy amount of skepticism, and I know not everything is always a ghost or not explainable. But Al was basically like, you guys are lying, and I'm gonna prove it. To the point that he went to Deborah and Tony separately and was like, I know one of you is tricking the other, and that it was probably some deep-seated trauma response. Even going as far to suggest whoever was doing it had been molested as a child.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Who where did this what is this guy? What are his credentials?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

He's an investigator. An investigator and therapist? Apparently. Okay. To which I say, get fucked, dude. Yeah. If you read the book, Deborah spends like 40% of it going over how they try to explain things away but can't. Like they they sh Deborah was not like, it's a ghost! Like they were literally trying to explain everything away and could not find explanations for it. So at one point, Tony was in the room with everyone holding Taylor while they were discussing the moving cold spots in the house. Tony reached out his arm and they thought he was pointing at something until he said, No, look at my arm. And there were two fresh scratches on his arm. A little while later, someone pointed out that Tony actively had two belts forming on his forehead. Holy cow. This still did not satisfy Al. And when the show aired, Deborah and Tony were surprised by an interview Al had done that they didn't know he gave. And in the interview Interview, he basically said that they were encouraging the behavior of the supposed spirit by giving her toys. Okay. That's disagree. I know we joke, but in reality, I have no idea what I would do in this situation. And if I thought giving this ghost kid things to play with to keep my baby safe, I would do it. Yeah. If that's what Deborah was doing. Also, Al Which is it? Are they faking the ghost or are they encouraging it? Right. Later, Al wrote to Deborah and Tony saying he was upset with the show because he wasn't allowed to do his own investigation and for their own sanity, Deborah and Tony took it as an apology. Sidings wanted Yeah. Sidings wanted to do a third visit and it was basically a hard no. Oh, for sure. That was until the previous tenant, Colleen, contacted Deborah and reiterated how her daughter played with an imaginary girl named Sally while they lived there. Once they moved, Sally was never mentioned again, and Colleen figured it was a phase. But then Colleen saw the sightings episode and knew that her daughter was playing with a ghost. With this new evidence, Deborah and Tony thought this would vindicate them, and they agreed to a third visit because Colleen was going to be on the show giving an interview.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Can you imagine though, like you move out of this house and you're like, okay, well, like, yeah, my kid played with an imaginary friend named Sally, whatever, and then your story is laid out again in front of you by someone else. Like I definitely that would have been a hard line moment for me to be like, oh, okay, it wasn't it wasn't an my imagination, it wasn't an imaginary friend. This is actually happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

And how nice of Colleen to reach out and say you're not crazy. This also happened to me. Yeah, because like I probably I would probably be like, well, guess that was grounded in reality. I'm gonna move on with my life.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

I mean, I might reach out and be like, dude, you're totally right. These things happen to me too, but I'm not gonna be on your show so that people can be like, this woman's a kook.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Yeah. This time the show is bringing their own medium, a guy named Peter James. Deborah described Peter as gracious and courteous, and he'd been given very little information about the family in the house. He did know that they had a baby boy, and that's why he was so confused when he looked up in the upstairs window when he arrived and saw a little girl. Peter walked around the house with his head down and didn't say much at first when he suddenly went to the bottom of the stairs and pointed at the top of the landing and said, There's a little girl up there. Peter said hello and asked if her name was Sally. In the hallway outside the master bedroom, Peter said he felt a strong resistance and whatever was in the room did not want him there. He went in the room and became firm with the spirit, saying, Talk to me. Just then Tony left the room and started pacing the hall, having a hard time breathing. He complained of a sting in his back, and when Deborah lifted a shirt, she found the letters M and C carved into his back. Some people say that this um was uh the C was for Charles Finney, who was the doctor. Okay um and then I he also has an initial M, but I can't remember what it is. Poor Tony is really going through it. Oh my god, he's getting beat up on the daily. Like this poor man. Peter told the spirit to stop hurting Tony and mentally kept asking her for a name, but could only get the letter B. Now the spirit was pissed and set Tony's shirt on fire. With him in it? Yeah. Girly, take a breath. We've all wanted to set a man on fire, okay, but you don't actually do it. I mean you can't you do if you could get away with it, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

I yeah, that's true. If I was a ghost, I What are they gonna send her to jail like they send Sally to her room?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

I just figured if I was a ghost, I would torment men. I would just torment them.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

Only the bad ones. I would go to dad first just to be like, you're going crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:56

I would fuck with him so bad. Luckily, he wasn't hurt and took the shirt off for inspection. Um Peter said four people had died in the house and one of those people was in the medical field, which was true based on research. Peter went back to speaking with Sally. Uh she told him her lung hurt and her ankle and foot hurt, and Peter thought Sally had died of pneumonia. After the third episode of sightings premiered, one of the researchers told Deborah she had found evidence of a five year five-year-old girl named Sally who died with her mom in an accident. It's believed they were writing in something that tipped over. Although Peter James said he thought it was pneumonia, it would make sense that her lung and foot slash ankle hurt when she died if she died in an accident. It's also possible that Sally initially survived the accident but was bedridden from her injuries and developed pneumonia as a result. Yeah. This would also give credence to Barbara saying the woman spirit was Sally's mom. Yeah. Because of the media attention these episodes were getting, the sightings crew wanted a fourth visit. If I were Tony, I would lose my shit, but Deborah talked him into it somehow. Deborah. He didn't have much skin left for fuck's sake. Right. This time the crew would come. I know. This time the crew would come with all the equipment and stay a full 24 hours. Tony told the crew he wanted someone by him the whole time to prove he wasn't hurting himself and spent most of his time sitting in a chair in the living room. Carrie Gaynor was a well-known parapsychologist and sat next to Tony the entire time, going as far as to having Tony take off his shirt before going to the bathroom so the crew could inspect and record existing marks on his body and then recording them after he left the bathroom to make sure he wasn't like doing anything. Oh fuck that. I would be like, You're coming to the bathroom with me. I mean, really y'all see your dicks in public bathrooms anyway. Yeah. All in all, Carrie witnessed 11 separate attacks on Tony in that 24-hour period. But even though marks would appear suddenly, Carrie was getting frustrated that he had not actually witnessed anything to it. Afterward, Carrie said in his in his interview that although he had been involved in 850 cases in 20 years, he had never witnessed anything like was happening to the Pikmin's. The day after the crew left, an indigenous shaman contacted Deborah and asked if she was interested in a cleansing. Because Tony was all fucked up. Yeah. Because Tony was all fucked up, Deborah agreed. When the shaman came to the house, she was dressed in indigenous clothing and explained that she was going to ask the spirits to leave with help from her spirit guide. She first smudged the entire house and then lit a candle and set it in the hallway. Sitting cross-legged around the candle, they all took hands as the shaman described a nice gentleman spirit who had been in the house a long time and a woman's spirit hiding. She also described a frightened young girl in the corner of the nursery. The shaman asked if they wanted her to cross over, but Deborah and Tony were unsure.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

You do like let this spirit rest. Rest. Yeah. Mainly Deborah wasn't sure if Sally had saved Taylor's life from Sid's because of fucking Barbara. And so she felt indebted to her.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:58

Okay, if you feel indebted to her, let her go.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

Yeah. The shaman said they could let her stay, and if they decided that she needed to leave at a later time, she would come back. They invited Sally to the circle, and Deborah said she could feel Sally sit in her lap. I knew it. Fucking The Shaman led the circle in filling each room with white light. She convinced the man to cross over, but the woman refused to leave. Tony started to be attacked, and the shaman asked him multiple times if he wanted to stop, but he told her to keep going. The shaman said the woman would get close to the light to cross over and then move away, thinking she was being tricked, which I think is really sad. That is sad. Eventually the shaman convinced the woman to cross over and they closed with a prayer. The entire ordeal took two hours, but Tony said he was no longer being attacked, and him and the shaman felt the energy was lifted. The shaman warned them that they may have some residual energy for a few days, said a final prayer, and left. Tony was left with eight fresh scratches across his shoulders.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:56

Oh my god. I s I feel so bad for Tony. I know. And like his wife just keeps she's like, let's do it again so that you can be attacked again.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:05

The Pikmans moved away from the house on Halloween 1994. Since then, Deborah relayed that her experiences and Tony's experiences in the house were vastly different. Tony never liked the house and it always scared him, but being the man of the house, he kept most of his feelings and experiences and experiences to himself. But soon these experiences started to turn sinister. It should be noted that like the the book that goes through all of this is from Deborah's journals. Okay. And so like every we're only getting Deborah's perspective. Yeah. But after they had finally left, Tony finally gave his story. And he said early in he would hear scratching in the walls and started to hear subtle voices while falling asleep. Tony worked nights. Um, so between the daytime and the noises, he couldn't sleep. He would try to tell Deborah that he had thought something negative was in the house, but her experience was so different, she chalked it up to sleep deprivation. Oh my god, no girl, you need to listen to your husband when he tells you these things. Yeah. But Tony started seeing full body apparitions of the black gloved woman at the end of their bed, and the subtle voices he heard turned into full-on conversations. Holy fuck. When Tony saw Sally in the kitchen, he knew it wasn't a little girl, but something trying to trick him. Yeah, that's what I wondered. Yeah. Tony became terrified and had no one to talk to about it. He became distant and angry, especially towards Deborah. All his problems were blamed on her, and at one point he said he had thoughts of harming her. He knew these thoughts weren't his own and sought religious counsel to try to protect him and mostly Deborah. The priest he talked to offered to come bless the house, but before he could, the priest suddenly died. Holy cow. Tony finally told Deborah his thoughts that something demonic was in the house and that it was slowly taking over him. He was scared and the spirits.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:54

These are like the first signs of oppression.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:56

Yes, absolutely. He was scared and the spirits he saw were not human. Deborah finally saw that her husband was not himself and agreed to move. Since then, many years had passed, and it seemed like Deborah was once Deborah was removed from the environment, she saw what Tony was talking about. Through the years, paranormal investigation groups reached out to the Pikmin's to get their first hand experiences, and Deborah volunteered to go back to the house a few times, and she said she never felt Sally, but has come to the conclusion that Sally never existed and whatever was in that house was cunning. When Deborah wrote this book in 2010, Tony was still battling whatever had attached itself to it. Now him and Deborah are paranormal investigators and researchers.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:41

So this is crazy to me that like you live there for what three years?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Um I think it was like a year and a half, two years.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

Okay, and you have grown so attached to this spirit that you're getting at Christmas presents, you're laying ground rules, you're acting as if the spirit is your own child, and then to go back and be like, oh, she never existed, like what kind of like psychology behind that would be like you I feel like I would be like, I feel like I just lost someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:12

Yeah, I also think that there is a postpartum thing happening here too. Yeah. So like I I don't I can't speak for all women, but my postpartum experiences were f fucking crazy. Like I j I didn't feel myself, I felt crazy. I wasn't in charge of my emotions or my thoughts, or I also have OCD and depression, and like so those were just increased with postpartum. So, you know, you have this baby that you feel attached to, and you feel very maternal, and you feel like you're not in charge of what you're thinking and what you're feeling, and you kind of let this thing influence that, and especially if it is a demon, it knows, right? It knows that you're vulnerable. Um, so I could I could see that uh playing a part. I also know that I think there would be a part of me that would be like my husband is not doing well. So it really doesn't matter what's here or not, like we need to leave. Yeah. Um later investigations have noted that whatever was in the house attacks men, and that the most of the sinister activity happens in the basement. Oh, did we even get into the basement? Book never even mentioned a fucking basement. Oh, Jesus. The house is now owned by a company that rents it out for ghost hunting. Multiple parties and people have said they encountered paranormal activity, including strange, unexplained noises, objects being moved, being touched, being scratched, and having an attachment leave with them. To this day, the Sally House is said to be the most believable haunting in America due to the activity caught on camera during the sightings visits. So Ash. What was haunting the Pikmin's eyes little girl named Sally or a needy little demon?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

A demon for sure. And I kind of I my thought process is like children are so innocent that a majority of the time when they die, they're probably gonna cross over. I feel like if there's a child involved that it's probably a demon. Not always. I have my own experience with children's spirits that that were not demons, but I do feel like a lot of the times that is the case. Like they're just trying to trick you, and that's especially to like a new mother, that's a a big soft spot for her. So it definitely all the the activity that was happening was not a child playing. And like I said, like the scratches constantly and constantly like battering Tony, that is the start of a supp of a an oppression, which is what happens before a full-on possession. The fact that Tony is still dealing with this is scary because likely it it's never it probably never ended.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

Well, and I think that if it's truly a demon, I think that demons are incredibly rare. Um I do think that ghosts who are um maybe you know more evil than others can scratch you, touch you, manipulate you. But if it's a true demon, I think that it's even cunning enough to say she's not going to be paying attention to her husband. Oh, absolutely. Paying attention to her baby. Absolutely. And if this spirit seems like a needy little girl, um, she'll be more enthralled, and so I can fuck with him more. I can yeah, I can distract her with this little girl. I think it's definitely a demon. And I think that uh poor poor Tony. Like I j I feel so bad for him because he just really went through it. Yeah. Um, so we'll move on to first thing you do when you die.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

Haunt dad, like I said earlier. Yeah. Let's see, what am I gonna do? I well, okay. So um our uncle Steve, when he died, played a couple little tricks on my dad because he was a prankster and my dad is totally a non-believer, but he sat down on the couch and said, It's your uncle Steve. I feel like I'd have to do something that dad knew for sure it was me. Otherwise, he would totally chalk it up to just like anything that he could possibly think of to say that it's not a ghost. Yeah. So I don't know for sure what I would do, but I would definitely I would stalk dad a little bit, see what he does all day long, and then go in for the haunt.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:45

Besides glaring or blaring blues music.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:48

And I honestly I want to go to a shop and see if he does anything in there or if he just hangs out.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:53

I mean I would be hanging out, but I'm a tourist, so I'm like, can I just lay down on this floor? I think that one of the first things I would do is um go to the Vatican.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Oh, and the secret files, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:11

Yeah, I want to see what's in there what the fuck is up in there. Yeah. And I want to read it all and go through it all. And I'm so nosy. I have to know everyone's business, and that's where I'm gonna start. I that's a good one. And I would honestly just spend so much time like listening to people's gossip. I know you would. The best gossip is the one where you don't know any parties involved, and you're just like, Sarah said what?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

Yeah, like so yeah, but that's where it'd start, is the Vatican.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:43

I will just let you relay that information to me because I'm not going to read all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:47

Yeah, and then I would meander over to Sistine Chapel. Yeah. Uh I would probably meander over there. See what's up with that. Yeah, I don't think they let people in that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

They don't. Yeah, so I would definitely go there because And you're a ghost.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:01

You can float and get all the details. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe bring Da Vinci with me.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:07

I would totally go to the Louvre and go to the basement because uh most of the art is in the basement that's not accessible to the general public.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

Let's just plan a little European vacation. Yeah, European once both of us are dead, we'll die at the same time. So it's fine. Um, we'll plan a little European vacation.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna do all the things that are forbidden to humans. Yes, for sure. Maybe get a little gelato.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:34

Yeah. Yeah. Have a gelato because I can't have human gelato anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

Can you imagine you're just walking down the streets of Rome and there's two floating guts of gelato?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:48

And somehow someone somewhere would know it's me. If there's anyone getting ice cream after they're dead, it's me.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

100%. You and your fucking ice cream. I want some ice cream right now. I have popsicles.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:04

That's not that's not ice cream. They're the tropical ones. That's not ice cream. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:08

So that wraps up this week's episode. Thanks for hanging out with us, and we hope you were just as stressed out as we were. If you survived tonight's episode, make sure to follow, rate, and share the podcast with your haunted BFFs.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:20

If you have a paranormal story that you think others need to hear, let us know at terrible toosome Tuesday at gmail.com. Make sure to title that subject line as My Terrible Tuesday Story, and please do leave out any terrible details.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:35

Also check out our Instagram at TerribleTosome Tuesday and give that page a follow if you want to be terrible too.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:41

That's all for this Tuesday. Don't miss out next week, where we tell you the true haunted story of the Wallace House Part One with a special guest. Have a good week and see you next Tuesday.